Is there anyone who actualy enjoys the crafting system?

[Heimdall]

Maybe I’m an idiot for failing to see why this whole crafting thing is so horrible and outrageous…
But I don’t understand why FS should have to change their crafting system…

They made a choice, the RNG one. Their stated goal is that a perfect weapon is almost (if not totally) impossible to get unless you are lucky.
the characteristics are random
Perks are random
Blessings are random.

Crafting only allows you to have one modification on a perk (on 2 or 3) and one blessing on 2.
To have a perfect equipment it is thus necessary to find an object whose basic stats are a total of 380 (and whose distribution maximizes the interesting characteristics) and whose upgrade will naturally bring a perk and a Blessing interesting and at the maximum level for each.
This is a fact: statistically the chances of getting such an item is low, very low.
But it is wanted by the devs, to avoid a unique build by all and to favor original builds according to the “lucky weapon” that one has dropped naturally
(of course all this is limited to the specific feats of our classes that will favor this or that equipment).

Many other games have chosen these natural random features and RNG in crafting. Borderlands, the Division, Diablo III.
We find these variations of characteristics, this lock of certain points when we voluntarily modify the others… However on these games, we do not find this resentment on the system. It is part of the game.
the roll is bad on the item, too bad, it is necessary to find another one.

The main problem before the patch was that unlike the games we had little basic material to craft… Now it’s not the case anymore : we win a random item at the end of each game, the brunt armory allows to accumulate the basic item for crafting.

In short, I can understand that you don’t like RNG, I can understand that clicking 15 times on a button is boring (and this point could be improved - it’s already a bit the case thanks to mods). But the very randomness of the results, the lock of the perks is a feature of the game.
at mininma I would like to see the possibility to change the basic characteristics of the weapons to give an advantage to one point of the weapon (even if it’s at the expense of another point and it locks all the characteristics afterwards). Thus, we would have a lever, partial certainly, but on all the levels of the weapon:
characteristics,
Perks,
Blessings.

[coolcab]

@freqlectic

Do note that Fatshark explicitly said that they learned their lessons, more player agency, less random bs shenanigans.

Also, note that VT2 has a terrible base progression system. It was eventually tweaked to make it better (as in less grind). If you re-visit Fatshark’s statement about lessons learned you can’t possibly end up blaming the consumer, right?

i dunno dude, another equally valid interpretation of those events might be that they’ve learned that they can placate you with apologies and keep getting your money, but i’m perhaps more cynical about fatshark than other people.

@freqlectic

• Let’s put it in a different context. I ordered and paid for a car that was advertised as a Ford but when I picked up the car it turned out to be a KIA.
• I’m utterly confused.
• Well, shame on me, I guess, I clearly shouldn’t have bought a KIA if I didn’t want one.

third go at the dealership, who keeps selling you kias despite the fact you wanted something else? but they apologize and eventually sort of fix it, so that’s alright then.

@freqlectic

Do you see the irony in that statement?

no, i don’t. i like this game! i don’t have the same problems with it it seems everyone else does. i find spending time on a game i like very very different to spending it on a game i hate, but you do you.

[Truehawk]

Or I enjoy most of the game like many others, am a live long Warhammer fan. And I’d wish that finally this bad part of the game(s) gets radically changed and improved. Complaining about something isn’t hate it means you care actually.
If I hated the game I would have uninstalled it a week after release.
Nice to hear you are a freeloader though, shill’s do get things for free I guess it’s one of the perks I presume?

[coolcab]

well i got vt2 free if you’re asking, i played it when they released it free on steam. no a friend bought it for me since he wanted people to play with on steam and i was gonna go gamepass.

i like, i dunno, marvel lets say i don’t feel particularly obligated to give marvels avengers any money, that game looked bad. you don’t hate the game but you’ll tell me to my face that if you enjoyed the primary progression loop, ie the point of this thread, you’re a shill. you only hate most of it, and also anyone who disagrees?

[Rainman]

@1Cake

Is it the item you want? No, but also yes.

No, but also no.

[coolcab]

i personally don’t really like name calling, i don’t like being called a liar or a shill. i would never call someone else, oh i don’t know, an undignified pay piggy who keeps paying for slop they hate and crying about it, i would feel awful. like what kind of a person would i be if i made hurtful statements like that?

[Dysphoria]

Simply no, you cannot compare itemisation in Diablo or Borderlands with this… The major difference is: in other games, the base weapon enables a new build. In Diablo, you don’t care for the stats of the weapon, to try out a build. That build comes from the perks/blessings that will ALWAYS be on that item. further grind is only to perfect that item more. This allows you to try a build relatively quickly, but perfecting it takes time

In Darktide, blessing combinations is what enables new builds. Now in my 250 hours in this game, I haven’t seen the burn on crit blessing for psykers once… So I cannot try the burning voidstrike build AT ALL, let alone with great damage

[N8TH3GR8]

Serious question. For current Crafting enjoyer gigachads.

IF Fatshark would make crafting an absolute, with no RNG systems, just grinding to unlock what you wanted: would you hate it?

I have more questions on your thoughts but on a fundamental level basis this is what I want people to give their thoughts on.

[coolcab]

at this point i honestly broadly wouldn’t care? i don’t care at all about the mechanism i only care about the outcomes. i’ve got good outcomes manipulating a very deeply flawed system, one with a ton of traps. i’d love for that to get fixed since it’s kinda player hostile, but what i actively do not want is what i keep seeing being sort of rhetorically bartered with ie “i don’t care make us grind a bunch more i want perfects”. why on earth would i trade a system that i can demonstrate works very well once you understand it to one i have to do more grinding?

i don’t care at all about infinite control or really perfects. i want to play game and get good items, how that happens i am largely ambivalent about. i don’t and have never cared about achievements, cosmetics, any of that stuff. i want good stuff, i wanna try stuff and i wanna try all the stuff i wanna try. i do not want to grind a bunch for an ideal, or broadly don’t want to right now at least. that’s the kinda thing that usually comes in an expansion once i’ve mastered all the weapons i have now.

for me getting that literal +1 perk/slight stat rearrangement isn’t worth grinding for another ten seconds let alone however long a new system would have. i react with extreme revulsion to people asking for more grind, particularly if they refuse to work out reasonable estimates of the actual system based on observation ie don’t know what the grind is right now.

everyone who says oh i had ten thousand hours in vt2, drg whatever - i didn’t like those games. as such i am very suspect of people championing them as an ideal. i also have talked to lots of people with much less rose tinted glasses about VT2 in particular.

[coolcab]

@Dysphoria

In Darktide, blessing combinations is what enables new builds. Now in my 250 hours in this game, I haven’t seen the burn on crit blessing for psykers once… So I cannot try the burning voidstrike build AT ALL, let alone with great damage

what’s the specific blessing and weapon, sorry? i think you are currently staring down the eightball of fatshark hates psykers and only now realizing how stacked the odds are here. this is another thing i hope they fix.

[Rainman]

I made a suggestion that I thought was a decent compromise. I’m not a fan of the rng, so I don’t fit that audience, but I kept some grind into the idea to appease the devs.

Gameplay and player-driven item progression suggestion

Preface: I posted this months ago, but it’s not showing up in search for whatever reason, so I’m reposting it with a little bit added so it can be seen and acknowledged (I also posted this in the steam forum, so I was able to get it copied over from there). We can combine the best of both worlds of the omnissiah and the requisitorium- the ability to choose specific item properties, and the need for engagement in core gameplay to achieve those goals. My suggestion is to be able to choose specif…

[joaquox]

@Rainman

but I kept some grind into the idea to appease the devs.

I thought it was supposed to be the other way around, devs trying to appease the customers…

[Rainman]

Should be, but I don’t think they’ll take a bite unless it has a flavor they like.

[Fulnec]

Really depends… how much grind are we talking about ? I would be happy with a bit more agency but I wont enjoy spending 1K hours grinding equipment, regardless if it is based on RNG or not. I also kind of expect future content to push the 80% stat limit further, so there is that.

I would much prefer having access to maxed equipment in the first few hundreds hours and grind cosmetics/frames/color palettes after that.

[Flawless]

@Haiboku

Sometimes you get god roll stuff and sometimes you dont but i get enough god rolls to want to keep trying new build.

So how many weapons with 380 stats that are distributed in a way that all the important ones are at 80%?
And how many weapons with two t4 perks and two t4 blessings do you have, where both perks and both blessings are exactly what you want?

You did not say that you got “acceptable”, “decent”, “good” or even “great” rolls once in a while.
You specifically said “god roll” twice. That means it has to be perfect.
How many of those do you have?

@1Cake

Gambling implies a chance to lose.

You buy items from grunt, hoping that they have basestats as good as, or better than your current item.
If they are not that, you lose.

When ever you do quality upgrades on these items, you hope to get a perk and a blessing as good as, or better than what you currently have.
If they are not that, you lose.

@coolcab

@Truehawk

We bought this game to have a fun time not to waste time, pushing 2 buttons for 10/15 minutes isn’t good game design.

hrm, these elements were in all the previous games you bought (you mentioned complaining about them in VT). so that’s at least two, maybe three titles you bought despite this? it sort of seems like you say you want one thing and pay repeatedly for another.

In V2, you get a red “Sword”. You roll it for 15 min and you never have to roll a “Sword” again. You are done with chasing the perfect “Sword” and can do something else now.
In Darktide, you are not expected to ever be done with any weapon. Because you are expected to try and do it again and again to get an item that is hopefully a tiny bit better than what you have. But most of the time, it is not better and goes in the garbage.

Now let’s say you get an actually perfect item in Darktide.
If FS decide to rebalance anything in regard to the weapon itself, perks, blessings or enemies, that would mean that your weapon is no longer perfect, you quite likely have to start all over again.
In V2, you just roll your old perfect item for 15min until you have the new perfect stats.

Also, before the update, we did not have to click 2 times per reroll.
They intentionally added the requirement to move the mouse around and to click twice as often, making the reroll bs even more annoying than it already was before.

[coolcab]

if you want a relatively long rambling (7 min) explanation as to why this - ie why specifically psyker items are rougher than everyone else - here you go. this has lots and lots of evidence to back up what i’m saying pulled from my results. i know there are some just wonderful human beings out there who doubt, call me a liar, etc. so i thought i’d get ahead of it, and the next time they do it until challenged and then mysteriously get quiet and or brag about likes i can save them some time.

rambley item explanation

@Flawless

You did not say that you got “acceptable”, “decent”, “good” or even “great” rolls once in a while.
You specifically said “god roll” twice. That means it has to be perfect.
How many of those do you have?

so, by this criteria none of the items i showed in the video above are “god rolls”. i would describe every single one of them as such however. how would you exactly - the evis in particular, describe that as anything other than an incredibly rare outcome. would you say i should be disappointed in this evis?

because again that legit is an opinion of some people here - that unless the maximalist position is achieved the system is bad, that the evis with perfect stats and perfect blessings and ideal perks except one is T3 is not good enough. that is i would say not the normal expectation of systems of this nature, at least not in games i like to play.

[Dysphoria]

Voidstrike staff with Blazing Spirit, this allows you to gain warp charges with just using your staff, without having to take feats like Kinetic Flayer

[Flawless]

You want to rely on an attack that has a chance to apply a weak dot on crit?
And then you want to rely on the 10% chance of getting a warpcharge upon getting a kill with the weak dot that is rearely applied?
For which you usually have to rely on a kill against elite enemies, since trash mobs will just get 1 shot by the attack that would apply the dot.

@coolcab

so, by this criteria none of the items i showed in the video above are “god rolls”. i would describe every single one of them as such however.

Didn’t watch, but “god roll” implies perfection.
Unless they have 380 modifier with perfectly distributed stats, two perfect tier 4 perks and two perfect tier 4 blessings (or what ever the highest possible tier of the blessings is), they are not perfect and therefore no “god rolls”.

There is nothing wrong with you being happy with the items that you have.
They might be good, great or even near perfect.
But do not call them something that they are not.

[Dysphoria]

The damage of the Dot I care very little about, it’s the fact that crits will now be able to generate warp charges. Soulblaze does not need to deal the killing blow for the warp charge to trigger.

Don’t know if it will be a great or even decent build, since there is no way for me to try it out without getting lucky in a lottery…

[Flawless]

@Dysphoria

The damage of the Dot I care very little about, it’s the fact that crits will now be able to generate warp charges. Soulblaze does not need to deal the killing blow for the warp charge to trigger.

So if an attack, that would have applied SB, kills the enemy, that enemy counts towards the 10% chance for the Ascendant Blaze feat?
If so, nice. Didn’t know that (and should not be the case according to the feat description).