IIUC, ogryn is gonna lose 15 toughness which is relatively ok as the loss is not that much and more DR talents can potentially be chosen, but what the heck is it for vet? Vet is gonna lose 40 toughness without any compensation on base toughness, especially along with the nerf on gold toughness? I mean is this kidding or FS balance team just hates vet?
Vet’s survival has always been inferior compared with most classes, especially when using the signature power sword due to its poor mobility. If the goal here is to make vet become a purely ranged class, then please delete things like power sword, the keystone “Weapons specialist” and that entire right branch as you are making them a joke now.
VoC gives 25 more toughness than previously, the +25 toughness node is pretty much where the +15 used to be, and you have so many more points to spend on real talents that I think more than make up for the difference. You still get attack speed and bleed on hit. I think that melee vet will be perfectly fine if not better than before if we’re trading ~30 toughness from stat nodes (more after curio scaling, less after havoc scaling) for more points to spend on real talents.
The better question is, why would you previously take 10% rending which does absolute jack to most weapons or Competitive Urge over 25 toughness? If you go down to Focus Target, you would nearly always get the 25 node.
If you’re playing Weapon Speciliast, might as well take both, because some of the Vets talents have less gameplay value and tangible UPTIME than 25 toughness which is CONSTANT and also doesn’t get cut down by Havoc innate modifiers.
Both of these 25 toughness nodes saw a lot of play from my experience, sometimes people took them both which is super valid point investment, compared to talents like 25% stamina reduction node from WS, Onslaught, Close Quarter Killzone, Deadshot, Killzone, Keep their Heads Down and some other stuff nobody really used.
50 extra toughness = you don’t lose Iron Will as easily, especially against Ragers.
50 extra toughness = great for Exe Stance and Stealth builds which don’t instantly restore all toughness like Voice of Command, and rely on maintaining toughness pool in the highs with 30% ranged damage reduction from Exhiliratng Takedown and Tunnel Vision.
50 extra toughness = instead of going all toughness, you can use stamina and health curios in Havoc without having 100 toughness and less than 100 HP @ havoc 40.
50 extra toughness = easier revives on teammates without abilities, gunners can’t zero you in an instant, synergy with Leave no One Behind without relying on having VOC for revives.
That dev blog contains multiple errors, I would not be surprised if things have been miscommunicated in few places, on the top of things which are clearly badly formatted.
I cannot remember the last time I took both 25 Toughness nodes, but I will wait until I see what the actual toughness values I’m getting in Havoc.
The question I have for Fatshark is how many straight up veteran damage buffs it will take, before they realise the issues with that class lie elsewhere. It’s almost like Ogryn Damage Resistance saga.
In my premades its pretty normal to go +50 toughness over Ranged Damage Boost and Precision Strike in melee builds, not hat i necessarily agree with it but its being done commonly!
It’ll be really funny if the new talent layout gives vet too much damage and they end up nerfing a bunch of the stronger damage talents, like skirmisher, next year.
As one of the OG whiny vet mains, it kinda makes me want to do a big write up post. About what the perennial problems/annoyances with the class have been. And why these changes don’t address many of them. But man, I’m lazy.
The whole section of the new tree around FT got me like . While I think Born Leader is good, rending/brittle is situational, and Competitive Urge and Leave No One Behind are memes.
I’ll admit as someone who almost never takes both +25 nodes I’m not quite as bothered as some, but even losing 15 base toughness feels a bit unnecessary.
I genuinely feel like the hit to Vet’s stamina stats, both the +1 and -0.25 delay nodes, are the more glaring WTF. Does Vet really need to have such bad base stamina stats? The +1 stamina can at least be compensated with weapon perks, but the delay loss is an unmitigatable F you for builds that ran it.
Take Duck and Dive, with the freed up points from the tree changes it should be easier to fit into more (most?) builds and it works really well as even just passively dodging a stray ranged shot or two while in melee is enough to proc the effect. I don’t think I ever ran out of stamina the times I take that talent.
You absolutely do not need to sell me on duck and dive, I’m already a huge fan of it. Still gonna heavily feel the loss of stamina stats, even on the builds I run duck and dive on.
I just don’t know why Vet needs to have such bad base stamina stats frankly. It just feels bad to play with.
Duck and Dive is a good talent and you can also take Focus Target subnode that restores stamina & toughness for each stack of FT applied to killed enemy, that’s not the point though.
Marksman Focus keystone had the worst melee perfomance out of all Vet builds because most of your damage buffs go into ranged weapon. That stamina regen was more crucial to MMF builds than anything else.
Also Duck and Dive got nerfed by its new placement, it’s right at the bottom now which requires more points to get there.
I did think it was in a worse position when I first saw it yeah, but comparing my current havoc builds to what it’ll take to get the same after the upcoming update I save 4-6 points so overall I reckon it’s a win - especially since it branches from Skirmisher which is already very strong.
The 0.25 stamina regen delay disappearing is a loss, maybe they could roll the delay reduction into MMF. The +1 stam I really don’t think makes or breaks anything.
The new layout generally gives less compromised access to Duck and Dive, Field improv, Only in Death and Exhilarating Takedown, which is very unlikely to cause trouble with giving Vet too much damage.
Now if there’s one build that’s gonna really benefit its the Recon lasguns, the Onslaught being more accessible, extra 25% ranged damage and better access to clip size increase will make a decent difference.
Melee builds on the other hand will get the glorious opportunity to dip into Leave No One Behind or Competitive Urge
Just keep in mind, Duck and Dive still has a 3 second internal cooldown on procs. A lot of its perceived benefit is honestly placebo effect in my opinion. Adding move speed onto it is nice and might make it a useful pick.
Personally I like it a lot combo’d with ghost. Let’s you just keep sniping with deadshot as long as there are ranged enemies in the area. Wasn’t aware of the cool down, but in practice I’ve found this combo does go a long way to offset deadshot, though mixing in tunnel vision as well is necessary for a complete offset I believe.
No worries. I just didn’t expect it to be worse than I thought. I sometimes used Duck and Dive over crit talent in the same row to save a talent point for something else, maybe it was a mistake.
I’d be interested in your take. I generally main vet. In my mind the two standout issues are: lowest CDR of any class (and lowest benefit from red talents), lowest DR of any class (once toughness drops below 75% things can go south rapidly). Trench fighter feels mandatory to make a few of the melee weapons they have access to viable in melee combat at higher difficulties.
. While I think Born Leader is good, rending/brittle is situational, and Competitive Urge and Leave No One Behind are memes.