I don't know how to make the rapier work on legend

Fatshark Lounge
1

The rapier feels so incredibly underwhelming compared to other weapons, which is a shame, because I really love the idea behind it. All it brings to the table is mediocre horde clear, which isn’t really needed in semi-coordinated groups, but it really doesn’t do anything against armor or even northland shelds, let alone storm shields or bigger threats.

I tried a full attack speed and crit chance build on WHC, but the headshot crits aren’t reliable enough on enemies that matter. I even tried to hit some break points with chaos and infantry for the charged attack, but than it’s just way too slow. I’ve also tried Zealot, but IMO he doesn’t bring anything substantial to the table with rapier.

I’m trying to get headshots to the best of my ability and it works okay vs skaven and zombie hordes, but as soon as I get a couple of shield guys in there it stops me dead in my tracks.

It can work on BH because you have your infinite crit ammo to fall back on, but I try to avoid that career, because it feels too imbalanced atm. Other than that I see no reason why to bring rapier when you have the Falchion which does horde clear well enough and everything else a lot better.

Finally the pistol fire attack is probably the most situational thing in the whole game and usually not even worth using unless you’re the host.

Sure it’s “playable”, but it doesn’t really fulfil any important role and I usually feel like I’m the weakest link in the team because of it.

2

I think Rapier is a lot more challenging to use than the Falchion but can outshine it, if your doge & dance game is good enough. Its charged attack is great against armor if you time it right (there’s a specific point in the charge to release and it does more damage).

Shield guys are a pain for sure honestly they need some tweaks in general. But with the rapier you’re probably better off spamming light attacks on them to get them to drop their shield and then using a charged attack to finish them off.

But really the main perk the rapier has is increased dodge count and distance, and free light attack blocks. You can be a lot more mobile and avoid a lot more damage with it than any of his other weapons.

EDIT: disclaimer, I’m terrible with the Rapier, but I have a couple friends that are straight up gods with it.

2 Likes
3

WHC Rapier w/ +20% Dodge distance is kitemaster and can recover on Legend in a Handmaiden like manner.

WHC is a bit of a jack of all trades and am not quite sold yet on the effectiveness, but he does feel good with the headshotting talent. Rapier can headshot on light attacks

Run Repeater to thin out hordes and take down specials easy, to be useful beyond running away (j/k, with his kiting and stamina he can tank. But not hold a position; a fake tank. Can keep a flank open and a group distracted). A lot of work on the finger though

4

Do you guys have any special breakpoints in mind or is it just +10% AS, +10%crit?

5

Well that quite literally IS the Rapier in a nutshell.

Its outstanding vs Hordes… but extremely weak against shield users and only about Average on Armor.

And yes its not the best weapon to use on Elites.

Its a Horde Clearing weapon primarily.

Which it does exceedingly well, even better than the Falchion. Falchion is hands down better against Elites and Armor/Shields.

There’s no getting around that. Rapier isn’t the be all end all weapon, its only one weapon choice with strengths and weaknesses depending on what you need.

But yes it does instantly kill Elites on a Crit Headshot. So if you want to use against Elites (Not CW mind you). You can do the Hold Block + LMB spam.

6

I don’t think the rapier is good outside of WHC because his +damage on headshots synergizes too well. On the other hand I don’t think any other weapon in so good for him as the rapier.

Against the Falchion, the rapier has about the same DPS when headshotting, but more horde control.
The Falchion needs a lot of +power to 2-HS SV, Rapier 2-HS easily (less than 10% power i think).

I think that the best use for the pistol shot is when dodging to land an extra hit on unarmored elites, especially maulers. It’s worth about 2 charged melee attacks.

2 Likes
7

The falchion can 2-shot HS SV? I thought it needed 4 without any +power.

8

On Storm Vermin… the Falchion is only about 2 headshots on WHC. IF you don’t insta kill it on a crit.

He’s talking about the Charged Attack on the Rapier when he says that. And he means the quick charge, not the full charge. Its what he meant when he said 10%.

9

I prefer the Rapier personally. Excellent range, speed, stagger, maneurability, and head shots plus infinite ranged ammo if you ever need to stagger/pin a distant special and you’re, for some reason, out of ammo.

It’s just a different and more Kerilian-esque style of weapon. I find the falchion’s attack pattern to be annoying and, at times, dangerous.

2 Likes
10

After a week of trying I still can’t make it work. It’s a cool weapon on paper but it gets outclassed by most other things that are used on legend. It’s decent vs trash hordes, but these are never the problem. The things beside them are.

When your team clears hordes at mostly the seme speed than you with their multi-purpose weapon which can also destroy armor and shields, I really fail to see the point. Sure the extra dodge range is nice, but why does it matter if I can avoid the need to solo resolve clutch situations by just playing BH with a falchion. There were so many situations where a BH ult or crit shot would have actually helped someone or even saved the game, while I was helpless as a WHC on rapier. Someone pulled patrol? Whelp might just tickle the CW or shielders till my team gets them.

Big part of the issue is probably also the fact that most groups have at least one ranged horde clear option which is much more effective and at the same time a lot safer and also people being greedy for kills, which makes playing a more defensive WHC completely pointless in most PUGs.

Overall feels like a tank without the survivability and lacklustre damage outside of trash clear.

11

WHC has a good survivability through temp health.

I think his main selling points are versatility and team-wide buffs. His active is pretty good and can be made available often enough.

Whenever I play him I don’t actually feel like doing any worse than when playing the BH. It’s very smooth.

12

Every class that can clear hordes has a lot of temp health, including BH.
What team wide buffs? The +20% dmg buff on tags might be nice, but I don’t believe it offsets the fact that WHC has lower damage vs important targets compared to BH. The ult seems very underwhelming for the cooldown and you usually use it for only one part of the ability. Either to save someone and waste the crit, or for extra crit chance, which in turn puts your panic button on cooldown.

1 Like
13

I’m just going to put this out here:

Build name: RSI Zealot

Build link: http://verminbuilds.com/#4921a633e369-596ad23db131

Summary: +38% melee damage (+65.6% vs chaos), +198.1% (max) ranged damage vs chaos minibosses, stupid amounts of damage, great fun and surprising survivability.

Pros:
Extremely high damage.
Very good survivability.
Very flexible and aggressive playstyle.
High skill cap.
Sigmar blesses your ravaged body.

Cons:
High skill floor required.
Not so stellar damage vs CW but still pretty decent.
Elf still shoots you in the back, triggering HoI and leaving you vulnerable afterwards.
You will need a new mouse and treatment for RSI if you keep playing this.

Notable points:
Rapier’s pistol is able to 2 shot maulers at low hp, and you can shoot, slash, shoot on rapier in roughly 1s.
You can survive extremely well by using Holy Fervor when Heart of Iron procs, allowing you to heal to full hp when you should have died, giving you sufficient breathing room to back off until HoI has finished its CD.
You got a stupidly high burst chaos boss damage if the conditions are right.
The righteous feels no pain, be you unrighteous?

Talents:
SAINT OF BATTLE - +5% crit
NO SURRENDER! (does not work off host) +3% power per enemy x5 stacks
SHIELD OF FAITH - Increases push angle by 10% x5 stacks
RIGHTEOUS ZEAL - Temp hp on kills
PLEASURE FROM PAIN - Heal temp hp on hit with ult

Melee: Rapier - Crit chance + Power vs Chaos, Swift Slaying
Range: Volley Crossbow - Power vs Chaos, Power vs Monsters, Barrage/Hunter
Necklace: Stamina, Push/block angle, Natural Bond
Charm: Power vs Chaos, Power vs Monsters, Decanter
Trinket: Crit chance, Movement speed, Shrapnel

Explanation:

The Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) Zealot is a min-max DPS build which is surprisingly survivable while tossing out a ridiculous amount of damage.

At max power, you will have:
+38% power
+65.6% melee damage vs chaos
+78.0% (min) ranged damage vs chaos minibosses
+198.1% (max) ranged damage vs chaos minibosses

Rapier’s pistol is able to 2 shot maulers when you are on low hp.
You can shoot, slash, shoot on rapier in roughly 1s.
You can kill a SV in 2 head stabs, or just spam light attack into its head.
You can solo push a horde with some skill (push when density gets too high)and not take much damage if any.
You can survive extremely well by using Holy Fervor when Heart of Iron procs, allowing you to heal to full hp when you should have died, giving you sufficient breathing room to back off until HoI has finished its CD.
You don’t need healing at all, Faith is all you need.
You will eventually need a new mouse.
You also will eventually need to see the doctor about your RSI.

The righteous feels no pain, be you unrighteous?

14

Will personally go for +2hp teamwide. Legend provides sufficient taggable enemies.

False. WHC just doesn’t have much burst capability. +20% party-wide at least compensates for that.

Try with a cooldown focused build. It’s on as long as there are enemies.

All in all. This is MY opinion and what WORKS for me. Don’t make it into a post video thread.

15

Just asking, how did you reach those numbers?

16

+2hp disappears way too quickly. You only get something out of it if you instantly wipe a storm patrol with grenades. But then you usually don’t need the temp HP.

Sadly I don’t really notice the +20%. Lowbies don’t have enough HP and CW would have been deleted by BH and not even a problem. Maybe for bosses, but in my experience they die a lot faster when I play BH and there’s no buff.

I did try the CD build, but I don’t think it justifies sacrifacing AS/Crit/Curse resist, for an IMO very underwhelming ulti.

I’m just going to put this out here: Build name: RSI Zealot

Have you tried it with falchion? I imagine you’d get even better results with it.

17

I mainly feel it when shooting specials

As for rapier - it lucks killing power and stagger for me. I feel voulnerable against hordes, compared to falch or flail. The advantage I can think of is better damage against elites, where you can do consecutive thrusts agains one target with good range, and also you can left click things without breaking offence for blocks and pushes, but it doesn’t work that well when there is more than 5 guys in front of you. But the thing is, you have to constantly jump left and right, and it kills per hit less.
I also like pistol to aggro random roamers, while not getting close to them, so you can meet them on clear plane, because it’s free.

18

Different types of power boosts multiply on each other.

1.2 (passive) x 1.15 (lvl 10) x 1.2 (lvl 15) x 1.2 (power vs chaos) = 1.9872

Whoops, I made a mistake, it is supposed to be +98.72% vs chaos. +65.6% is the power boost vs skaven which doesn’t have any power vs x boost.

19

Rapier is much better vs hordes than falchion or flail tbh. Higher attack speeds allow you to hit and stagger more stuff while having half cost pushes for higher horde densities. Aim for headshots and the rapier performs a lot better than both the falchion and flail against hordes.

1 Like
20

Wait, they stack like that!? So armored and chaos would as well? Meaning 10% vs chaos and 10% vs armored when hitting a chaos warrior wouldn’t be a multiplier of 1.2 but 1.1 x 1.1 = 1.21?