Huntsman Kruber nerfed way too hard

You’re comparing HS @100% full tryhard vs CW to every other class, which isn’t going full try hard and doesn’t need to in order to succeed. The argument that he’s usable with one extremely specific build is damning. Other classes can and do remove or contain multiple CW with more ease in a comparable or superior fashion without being pigeonholed into such specifics and they don’t have to sit on their ult to maybe have a shot of maybe landing their headshots on swinging, rollerblading, staggered, occluded targets after getting perfect or near perfect equipment property rolls, all to make a single weapon help the class be remotely competitive while using one specific talent build…

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So what you’re saying is +50% power is needed to oneshot headshot CW, during ultimate.

This is so far from being a good, viable class you just have no idea. WS is so much better at everything else, BH is SO much better at everything else as well. And so is Pyro, Slayer, Zealot.

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HS is now on the same level as BW IMO. Ie. Usable, but why? At least WHC has general versatility, well-rounded potency, weapons that work, and no issues with swap/animations. Every other class right now is pretty healthy, with Merc and FK lagging a bit but at least FK has a ton of CC. Kruber is in need of serious love across the board.

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What class can remove multiple CW with more ease than huntsman? I know of 0 classes that can kill CW better than I can on huntsman. I’ve never played a game with a pyro or WS that can come close to my elite kills. BH is the only class that can kill elites in a comparable fashion. And his ulti only kills one…

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That’s extremely anecdotal evidence to support your case, even without factoring in that, as previously mentioned, you’re going full tryhard for CW and they absolutely aren’t. It sounds like your perspective is tainted by the people you play with and not the actual performance potential of those classes. This also kinda strawmans my whole post of relevant arguments.

Just to reiterate, your definition of “ease” is:

  • Perfect, extremely specific equipment properties and traits, all to suit one weapon
  • The only functionally “competitive” talent build
  • Not using your ult except for extremely specific situations, therefore having it go to waste most of the time
  • Landing headshots on multiple targets that are attacking and being attacked by three other people and therefore having their heads constantly knocked around in unpredictable ways while also being blocked by any Maulers that are likely also in the equation under the kind of circumstances where this armchair quarterback situation could exist

Vs.

  • IB pressing a button and tanking as many CW as can physically fit around him for 15s
  • Shade spamming CW assassinations w impunity
  • HM being literally unkillable
  • Zealot being a psychomurderer maniac in general
  • BH’s spammable non-ult active demolishing CW in addition to his ult
  • Pyro spamming Burning Heads that will always either kill a CW or bring it w/i one hit of being killed
  • Slayer just demolishing them in general

Every other class has average performance vs CW but that’s because that simply isn’t their identity. WS can kill CW faster in melee, obviously, but I can guarantee you no WS in their right mind is rocking friggin 40% Power vs CW. Virtually no one is. The entire premise of the argument is insane.

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You guys realize that the problem isn’t, that in theory, its still somewhat nearly possible to effectively play huntsman if you are literally having 100% perfect and playstyle gear, do you?
Its even more sad that we need apologists who draw every card to make huntsman comparable to any other ranged class on the paper.

What this “beast” of a career can do with all that hassle is achievable with any of your everyday mediocre skilled pug Pyro/WS/BH geared with some “kind of in that direction but I dont have green dust”-stuff. Easily.

You know what? A group with BH and Sienna is melting those bosses away like HM did in 1.08 WITHOUT scoring a single headshot, major timing or anything but just by throwing a single bomb and F for stunlock + crazy dmg. Not even talking about shade. These guys also take out complete hordes, elites, specias and patrols solo while having unlimited ammo and pointing in their general direction. Sienna and WS even have a panic button to delete specials like gutter runners midair witthout aiming.

And now tell me that hunstman is “fine” how he is. No comment on that.

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WS has worse elite killing by FAR. Idk how you can say elf is ‘much better’ at elite killing. LB can’t even one shot SV to body and I never use it on CW because it takes 7+ shots even w power vs rolls.

BH w crossbow is comparable in the elite and boss killing department…not so much better at either of those things altho he is better at waveclear.

Endgame content is where you should be min maxing your class for ideal performance. You don’t need to run 50% power vs chaos to play hs; but for a skilled player doing so raises the skill ceiling and makes the class very potent with practice. If I can reach a one shot headshot on CW during ultimate that is something definitely worth doing - considering the cost is 20% damage to non-chaos monsters and 5% crit/as/10% skaven damage…

Huntsman is still the only class that quickly dispatch of multiple armored elites safely from ranged. The only difference is that now he has to headshot and be prudent with when to ultimate.

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It sounds like you don’t know the other classes very well at all, no offense.

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I’ll refute each of your examples in one sentence.

Tanking isn’t killing.
Shades don’t spam assassination - infiltrate has a 60s CD.
Being unkillable doesn’t mean you kill anything.
Have you ever played zealot into a pulled CW pat?
BH ‘spammable’ non ultimate has at best a 7s CD or requires melee weaving.
See definition of ultimate CD under shade for pyro burning HEAD.
Slayer into multiple CW, like zealot, GL.

Huntsman is a niche pick. He clears hordes w halberd enough to contribute, but his main role is to kill specials and elites and be a strong boss dps.

He can still do all these things. He can still do them all well. With handgun you kill all specials with body shots except gas rats and hook rats. You have an ultimate that allows you to eliminate many high health armored targets from safety. I’m not saying he is strong. I’m saying he can be played on a team and make a serious impact. I’ve even done the work to suggest what I think is the best setup for him with the 50% power vs armored chaos during ultimate.

Quit comparing him to other classes. Instead, learn his role and his strengths and adapt. It’s what I’ve been doing and I’ve had continued success w him even in 1.08.2

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My lowest level is 30+20 bardin. I know quite a bit about all the classes in this game thanks.

Your argument that he’s still competitive to other classes is comparing him to other classes. You’re also strawmanning the whole character down into its greatest strength, neglecting that even at its best, tryharded in the manner you’re suggesting, its overall performance isn’t on par with about 11/14 other classes. Your “refuting” of the above point, trying to make the argument about purely DPS is flawed in that you’re trying to argue the class is still amazing because of a best-case-scenario fantasy tryhard situation, then pretending the other classes, because they don’t do that one extremely specific thing under extremely specific circumstances, don’t compare. You also, and this is a really majorly damning point of concern, seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how CDs work in this game or are intentionally misrepresenting information to suit your case.

First, level is character based, not class based. Second, time spent on a class is not intrinsically resultant in an appreciation of that class’ potential. Lastly, your statements suggest you don’t understand the most basic potential of the classes you’re comparing HS to. Your argument is based on anecdotal evidence and you’re using subjective elements to try to refute the common sense rebuttals to your argument.

Strawmanning doesn’t help your case, especially when you’re doing it to deflect from the more important counterpoints. Do you have a rebuttal to, for example, the fact that your definition of “ease” is ludicrous and somewhat fantastical? Ie. especially vs every other class in the game.

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It sure is useful though, isn’t it? Freeing up 3/4 members to kill said CWs, without any danger.

Yeah, no. With 40% CDR and CDR on weapons, it’s up really really fast

Good players do this ALL the time, with great success. He’s a murderbeast.

And? You are explaining the mechanics of this, which everyone already knows. You’re not actually presenting an argument here. It’s stupid good, and 7s is spammable like hell.

Yeah, but if one wanted a build that could spam Burning Head every 7-10 seconds, it exists. It’s not very hard to do. Not to mention how much better a Pyro is at everything else as well.

Again, people do this all the time. Do you think people just give up and die to patrols if there isn’t a huntsman in the party?

Yeah OK, so, the WS longbow is really, really good at headshots. SV die on one headshot. If you happen to miss, it’s 2 body shots. It’s also LMB spammable into zerkers/plague etc etc. The HS handgun is really good at deleting ONE elite every few seconds. It’s not spammable, so you can’t stagger 6 approaching plague rats.

Like others have said, it sounds like you either don’t know other classes very well, or you’re being obstinate to try to prove that HS is as strong as other classes. He isn’t. He’s a wasted slot on a team.

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Handgun also doesn’t penetrate for s$#t.

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Yeah, a crossbow/volley BH can just roflstomp a pack of approaching greens/zerkers/anything that isnt CW. WS can do pretty much the same.

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Funnily enough, almost as if to prove my point, just before replying to this thread, I had this game:

Skittergate Legend, no deeds.

Show me a HS that can get close to that kinda stuff on 1.082.
Hell, show me a HS that can get close to what the Zealot did in that game.

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Huntsman won’t get more damage than that, which is clearly the stat you are incorrectly weighting as most important for him…

A good huntsman would have double your elite kills and top specials killed as well. That’s his role - not beam staffing a horde racking up the damage done…

Beam staff? I wouldn’t have survived that game with a beam staff.

Maybe you don’t know as much about Pyro as you think.

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Staff is irrelevant. The point is you’re comparing apples to oranges. Pyro will always put up more numbers than huntsman in the damage done department…

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I don’t know why you think his special/elite killing is special or why you’re suggesting he can beat the other classes who are also specifically designed to demolish specials/elites at ranged but don’t suffer from needing specific builds, have much better accuracy, better rates of fire, and deal now overall damage and help in other areas so they’re not just a wasted shot.

I mean… Yeah he can shoot stuff but he doesn’t have a real advantage. His advantage was vs CW and bosses but that’s been drastically reduced to the point it doesn’t make up for him in general.

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I’m just presenting what I believe to be the best playable build for HS. I don’t think he’s as strong as a lot of other dps classes and never claimed that he was.

I do think calling him a wasted spot is a little harsh though, as he can still contribute to a team as a solid elite killer. Also considering a lot of ambient mobs can be killed best range before they are pulled I think the need to stagger 6 plague rats isn’t a fair benchmark of solid dps. Although the slow fire rate of the handgun would make him much worse at the task than a LB or sb ws or a volley BH.

Edit: I think the best change to make for kruber would be to revert to 1.07 and fix the visual/ultimate/weapon swap bugs that currently exist to make his play more fluid (similar to BH or elf). 1 shotting CW to body during ultimate with relatively lax power vs constraints should be possible with the handgun. 2 shots to body or 1 headshot should be the case for the bow like 1.07. Seeing as this is not possible in his current stage I do think that the skill needed on kruber to make him worth taking over BH or WS is definitely disproportionately high. The handgun is a more rewarding weapon than the lb or the volley crossbow that I think can still yield decent results under the right circumstances.

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