You right, but this because we have seen nerf, nerf and others nerf since beta. And now we have careers like Zealot, WHC, Merc (beta version was very nice). All outperformed. Shade is a “new entry”. Next one will be Huntsman… and we will fight with bare hands.
P.s I have maxed every character, I am not defending my gameplay.
Yes it is too strong. Next question.
Why am I on fire?
excuse the edit it is just these bits i wanted to discuss.
I actually do not think the problem is so much range is overpowered and i think melee is fine , if the stars align and you find yourself in a lobby with 4 melee focused characters it has been my experience its actually easier, maybe a bit slower but its not harder for sure.
its more that ranged has such high front loaded damage , people are not playing ranged because its the best they are playing it because it wins the green circle hunt, its an understandable miss step in logic. the scoreboard (something else i have been whinning about since closed beta’s) promote competitve, not co-operative play.
Melee is perfectly fine as it is , infact i think the aborted power scaling fix has left event hat too pwerful.
i really dont see how we can lower the number of playstyles from the current total of 1 anyway.
but as you say its facts on the ground they have refused to do anything about it for so long anyone that wanted a vermintide 2 like me hasnt played in weeks and this new CoDtide is what we have for better or worse.
To me, the whole Huntsman and Shade discussion unravels a much deeper problem: Without your boss-dps classes, which are all ranged except for shade, who, if build for maximum boss damage, is more of a ranged-melee hybrid, killing bosses is atrociously slow, dangerous and not fun at all. Right now, we have a HUGE discprepancy between designated boss killers and other heroes and carreers who can’t do that. It is either you are a boss shredder like Huntsman, Shade, BH or Pyro Sienna (and maybe WS), or you are bound to dink at bosses. Especially trolls with their ridicilous HP regen are sooooo tedious to fight. Maybe Huntsman and Shade need some looking into, I don’t know. Problem to me is that they are so necessary for fighting bosses. Bosses need, imho, overall less damage reduction against melee attacks.
Another problem is the bosses spawn… if you all want a long fight, they should not spawn in a tight corridor with horde and tons of specials. They should be a reasoned fight in an arena; maybe also with an horde, but at least where you can move and assert your skill.
Had a game earlier when a chaos spawn attacked us in the mines, the super dark area where you have to escort the mining cart. At the same time we got 2 Gatling guns, a gas thrower and a hookrat during a horde with a patrol which we managed not to agro. That is insane…
Why stop at huntsman?
Nerf a lot of things too like burning head sienna builds that let you use it frequently and WS builds that let you use her ult frequently as well. Nerf BH and WS ability to delete hordes using cross bow and long bow without running out of ammo. Lets just nerf everything instead of making other weapons/careers viable… Oh and lets not forget handmaidens ability to solo hordes with her 3 sec stealth and the build that lets her use it every time.
I agree, some of the ranged horde clear and ult spamming is way too strong. I’d also add Shade’s strength against hordes with her crossbow. However, I’m not sure why you chose Handmaiden’s invisible talent, when she can flatten a horde of rats and DoT kill a chaos horde with the damage talent and Chaos damage stacking. The difference is, it’s highly situational and requires you to put yourself in awkward spots that you must fight out of and know how to survive in. The ult’s damage capabilities are pretty useless against anything other than unarmoured infantry though.
I would think a simple solution is just to have the first shot of the huntsman special hit the damage cap, then have the rest of the shots be normal crits without the massive add-on damage. Pumping out nearly 300k damage with a single special is a bit OP, no other class can even come close to that damage.
I dont see the problem with huntsman.
Pyro was outperforming from start, so was BH.
Also as already mentioned “nerf career XY so I can be top dmg” wont make this mess any better plus huntsman is a nice way to counter ridiculuos boss spawns in areas not wider than a hallway with four dissablers and a horde.
Bosses that are designed to be evaded, not blocked are no fun if you cant evade nor kite.
Try a strength potion, and remove that patrol.
So…the same as conflag/fireball sienna on strength pot, BH and ranger veteran?
Mkay.
What ? The thread is about whether or not Krubers threat removal is ‘’ too ‘’ strong ?
Personally i think he’s hella bitchin’ being able to remove monsters on legend before they even come close, that falls into the category of ‘’ too strong ‘’ to me. Couple that with an easy mode halberd, several weapons that can 1 hit stormvermins on legend shrug
AFAIK, they don’t even need the pot for it :>
It’s more of a gimmick thing, but keep up the sass, you strong independent commander.
sorry but i think this point doesn’t make really sense.
You want to counter bad boss spawns by giving one carrer the ability to delete them?
Thats not how you fix something like this.
Let bosses not spawn in bad areas or give the player a longer preperation time so they can move in a wider area (im for option 2). That how you fix that. Giving one carrer the ability to take the fun out of bossfights is silly.
@CommanderJ
Thats also not how you balance a carrer.
If a carrer is bad you don’t balance it by giving it the abillity to delet one of the four challenges this game has to offer.
Buff it in other areas or nerf classes that are simpy to strong.
The whole fun in this game is to master the challenges the game has to offer.
So of course you have to nerf stuff that is to strong. It just has to be done correctly.
I think in the end it comes down to, do you like the challenges this game has to offer?
If yes, then it should annoy you when one class makes one challenge trivial.
If no, then maybe there is something wrong with the challenge. But just taking this challenge away is not how you fix that.
I would really like to see a reply from Fatshark on this topic because this argumentation is spinning in circles right now.
@Fatshark_Hedge
Some careers/weapons delete hordes way more effeciently than others, “removing challenge and fun.”
Some careers/weapons delete specials way more effeciently than others, “removing challenge and fun”
Some careers/weapons delete elites way more effeciently than others, “removing challenge and fun”
Some careers/weapons delete bosses way more effeciently than others, “removing challenge and fun”
It’s interesting to see how only one of these four is causing an outrage on one specific character.
If they do nerf HS, I sure do hope they compensate so boring old Kruber is actually worth picking. Do people not remember when Kruber was just out of the meta, boring, no good weapons besides halberd, no good classes etc? He has the worst ranged options out of all the characters and arguably the least interesting careers out of all the characters. To top it off, aside from halberd his melee options are abysmal as well. He is supposed to be the go-to melee with a ton of options, but they’re all utter crap. As a result Slayer, Zealot, Handmaiden, WS, Shade, Ironbreaker and even WHC and BH are all much better at melee, and much more fun to melee with.
If Fatshark returns Huntsman to “why bother” state before fixing the multitude of problems across all his careers, it would be a huge mistake.
Im not changing anything, since Im not the one implementing.
Just played V1 and V2 often enough to know that finding a workaround is the way to go with Fatshark.
I would love a game that gives me challenge gameplay wise and not meta orientated but that isnt going to happen. Bosses will spawn in the most mentally challenged areas you can think of and it will stay like that.
I already postet the link to the post where people are complaining about that.
Of course this post isn’t as activ as the current one because people mostly agree that ranged is to strong, so there is no point in discussing that anymore.
Also you need normally at least two carrers if you want to make hordes trivial.
But you only need huntsman to make bosses trivial. So its even a bigger issue because you will face the problem much more often.
Yeah some careers are more effectiv in killing specials. But so far i didn’t had a single round in my 200h ours of playing this game, where specials weren’t a huge threat to the team. No mather what team setup i had.
There is no class that removes the challenge that specials are.
seriously elites are the main reason why my legend runs fail right now. What class does remove the challenge that elites are?
I agree with you that Kruber could get some small improvements. Especially his melee weapons.
But HS as he is right now is not the solution.
Im sorry for you that you lost youre hope in that regards. But im absolutely sure this can be fixed.
For me its quite a long time ago where i had a boss in an area where he was not fightable.
Funnily the bosses where it happend where always CS.
So just because krubers melee options are bad its fine that he has one of the most broken careers in the game ?
Its not like footknight and merc are unplayable or anything even in legend, if that were the case i might see your point.