Huntsman - Bodyshot Headshots (Sure Shot 2.0)

I still think the better play is to make headshots more rewarding rather than simply making headshots occasionally free

I and pretty much every other huntsman player out there severely disliked the sure shot concept because to us it negated the whole point of why we play the career

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How about headshots cause your next range attack to have some form of armour penetration (perhaps not full)? This could be a good talent for the Blunderbuss/Repeater. That way you’ll still do more damage on headshot, and it would be pretty good against Maulers.

I don’t think him having to aim is a problem at all. People need to use Ult for Specials and not just spam it on Elites, and you’ll do fine. Every other Career has to aim other than BH with his 100% Crit (or Shade 100% Crit), and none of them need guaranteed headshots.

You can take 40% Cooldown Reduction (+Stam regen), and have an Ult up for almost every Special pack, or every Horde, depending on if you’re using a Special killer or Horde Clear.

I think his main issues are how slow he feels, and the fact that he’s limited in Weapon/THP combinations. He’s a character with low Power, Kruber’s weapons (slow and not massively versatile), and low Attack Speed. Literally the only way you could get use from On-Kill THP is to get Makin’ It Look Easy up, before every Elite kill, which isn’t possible. Basically, if you can’t aim with him, this is why he feels even more useless. He needs Melee offensive buffs or THP buffs. Giving him THP generation bonus could actually be the best way of buffing him.

Also the Crit talent on that 2nd row could just become Maim, which was a much better Talent than all of them except the ammo anyway.

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Strongly agree. If on kill was replaced with cleave he’d feel a fair bit better. Otherwise I think he’s a lot of fun and doesn’t need much at all. I’m with @Incandescent on liking the power on headshots talent he briefly had in the beta. It also helped him in melee if you could keep up the ranged headshots in between diving into melee. Very rewarding talent and I hope we see it back in some form in the next BBB.

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It should not be a problem, there are other passive to be replaced.


Anyway Waste Not, Want Not, in my opinion, is really “strange”.

From one side, it’s necessary… because, without it, Shot Crafter becomes mandatory (and if a range career is forced to one only talent in order to regen ammo… there is a balance problem, exactly like Waystalker forced to Kurnous’ Reword).

From the other side… Waste Not, Want Not is not that good. It doesn’t stack with not-headshot weapons (like half Krub’s arsenal)… it needs an high skill level… but the reward is dull. It doesn’t give new ammo… it just prevents you consume yours, wich is a big difference (indeed you are forced to pair it with Conservative Shooter or Shot Crafter or, at most, the ult).

But this just to “vent” my thoughts… maybe it’s a little bit off topic.

Don’t get me wrong, I like your strategy, but in high contents, where you are surrounded by many enemies, often you are forced to swap back to your melee weapon (and block) as soon as you lose the invisibility… for this reason, in order to kill Special packs, I find Concealed Strikes almost mandatory… but, in this way, you lose 40% cooldown reduction (because, without Blend In, CD reduction on trinket is pretty flat) and rarely you will have the ult ready at every Special pack.

Well… my intention isn’t start the umpteenth HS vs WS vs BH discussion… totally nope. But, “abilities that give a free kill (be it free headshot or free crit or something similar)”, are nothing so rare. BH has Blessed Shot, as you said. WS has Blood Shot (and her ult).

I mean… half of the ranged careers have these kind of abilities… I would not say that “every career has to aim”.

Honestly, if well thought, I don’t think a kind of Sure Shot would ruin HS’ style… afterall it’s exactly what you said: a way to reward headshots.

Sure, don’t get me wrong, I’m opened to more solutions… we could find a different way to reward those headshots… but it’s not that easy. For example I thought something like “more power for X time after an headshot”… in order to gain a couple of breakpoints.

Anyway, in high contents, if you waste[*] a character slot using a ranged career… that career must totally kill any special as fast as possible (since it’s very easy to get overhelmed)… so, in those cases, the abilities that give a “free kill” (Blessed Shot, Bloodshot, Trueshot Volley) will be always the best option.

[*] “wast” because, who plays high contents like last weaves or mods like c3o or deathwish, knows how much is important have crowd control careers like BW, Merc, WHC etc etc… careers wich have, moreover, good ranged options and can do a decent Special cleaning.

That’s actually something I felt about Huntsman even from the Release days.
Even on low difficulties, having Huntsman doen’t just mean that you have a very unreliable ranged career. It also means that you don’t have any other Kruber on your team as well.
Oftentimes it feels just wrong to take huntsman, because there are other, much easier and effective options, which also don’t take away one of the best frontline characters.

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I personally feel Waste Not, Want Not is a great passive.

Ranger Veteran is reliant on specials.
Waystalker is tied to ult.
Bounty Hunter is tied to Scrounger and his ammo generation is practically on a timer.

Huntsman is unique in the sense he can mitigate ammo loss at any time so long as you can score headshots.

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I’ve never felt this way about him unless the person playing him isn’t filling their role. E.g. Special killing.

Your aim isn’t locked in. You can practice it and make him work, if that’s what you want to do. If not you have the choice of Shotgun, which is insane. Also you don’t need to go for headshots with Repeater Handgun, most of the Special kills with be 2 bodyshots.

If I Special/Elite kill with RH/Longbow, and focus on it, I’ll usually top damage and kill the vast majority of Specials. Other than mobility with the Longbow, I don’t see how that differs at all from the other Ranged Careers. The only thing he’s limited by is survival and a versatile Melee Weapon that’s capable of competing with SnD or A+F on those Ranged Careers.

Shotgun on him is one of the best builds in the game right now for Kruber, and has the either the highest killing power or killing power on par with Grail Knight.

Excuse the old version or Ranald’s Gift:
https://www.ranaldsgift.com/2/113221/20,8,3,3/11,1,4,4/3,2,1/4,5,2/1,7,3

Even with Hunter on the Blunderbus, Ult spam and headshots (which are easy to get on linear Hordes), are enough to maintain ammo. The Power lets you Cleave almost entire Hordes.

The Crit he grants is good, because you should be stacking near your teammates anyway. It also means he’s safe in dropping it on the Trinket, especially when running “Makin’ It Look Easy”.

As for him not being a frontline, his Weapons, AS and Temp HP Talents, force him to play Stagger Weapons, so he’s a hybrid of Range/FL, which he shouldn’t be. He needs better THP options or THP generation increase, so that he can run other Weapons and still be viable.

Whatever happens I hope Fatshark only adds more weapon synergy for Huntsmen and doesn’t straight-up buff HS’ range. They’re already strong enough in the right hands, they would just benefit from more encouraged build variety.

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I agree… I mean, I’m not saying that Huntsman is that bad or that it’s impossible achieve great results… but, like you, I feel that, when you are going to deal with bad situations, and you need a career that instantly kills specials (and why not, also Bosses and Elites)… there are better options.

About RV, you are right: his ammo regen method depends on specials… this means that it loses utility, for example, during Lords fights (and this is something should be fixed).

But WS and BH can regen almost infinite ammo, in any scenario, without efforts.


Also because, and this is more like a general speech, Vermintide is a game where headshots are… “unpredictable”, almost RNG. Enemies do weird and random movements with their heads… hitboxes are often both weird and bugged… certain enemies are impossible to “headshot” if they are aiming another player…

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I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not. Enemies move. You seriously think they should be holding still for you?

There’s no RNG with headshots, only player skill. You can only miss a headshot if YOU miss the enemy’s hitbox for the head.

This sounds more like a “you” problem.

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First of all, calm down. I remember your comments from the other thread: you just shoot sentences, arrogantly, without any argument.

Not only you can’t know how much my aim is good (I won more regional fps tournaments, but I guess you don’t care or you don’t believe me… and honestly I don’t care)… you also didn’t understand my thread.

  1. I said that hitboxes are bugged and weird… and this has nothing to do with aiming skill.
  2. I said that you can’t headshot certain enemies if they are aiming another player… and, guess what, read above.

About heads’ movements, it’s a little bit more complicate, but I can explain. Sometime happens that you see an enemy, you take good aim and, only when your arrow is ready traveling, the enemy moves its head. Nothing that you can foresee.

And I can also add that, a game without private servers, will hardly reward accuracy.

It’s fun how (especially seein who liked your post), once again, on this forum, we reason by bias, without the commitment to understand.

Honestly I don’t want lose my time with people like you. Nothing personal: I’m on this forum trying to do something constructive (sometimes I succeed, sometimes not), and this is nothing similar… so this is my last message about this. Goodbye.

The reason I liked his post was because you said that headshots were almost RNG in this game and I can’t agree with you there, no bias

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I wasn’t referring to you, don’t worry… anyway, well, I have to admit that the quoted phrase (mine) was a mistake. Obvly anyone can like any comment and anyone may have his own reasons.

But, apart this, I subscribe to what I said.


Just to be clear, I write it again: I didn’t said that the entire headshot system is RNG… it would be absurd. But, sure, in my opinion there are RNG factors… like ping, that in a game without private servers is often present. Or hitboxes that aren’t “clean” as many other fps (I’m curious to know how many competitive fps you played, guys)… or unpredictable movement patterns (a speech is predict an enemy’s movement considering what is happening on screen… another speech is that an immobile enemy (who hasn’t even seen you) moves its head without reason when your arrow is already traveling.

Sorry if I “exploited” your answer to explain better what I mean.

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Both statements of sirkruber and soul23 are exaggerating. but soul23 has a point though.
some Enemies in vermintide 2 are buggy and are not reliable to headshot.

  • Their pathing is cluncky
  • Their head hitboxes are not where they are supposed to be (gas rats)
  • very difficult to headshot enemies, like mino and chaos spawn (this can be removed with skill, still very hard to consistently headshot nontheless)
  • enemies that aren’t focussed on you are very difficult to headshot, due to stagger or just facing away from you (chaos warrior, assassin, example)

Yes those can all be circumvented with skill. Anything in the game can be circumvented with skill, this doesn’t mean its not annoying to play something that has headshot triggerable talents and you just not being able to headshot.

I wouldn’t call headshots close to rng, but i also wouldn’t say missing headshots is completely the fault of the player. There are annoyances in the game in regards to headshotting, and what can be fixed should be fixed.

I’ve had many times playing bolt sienna, where i shoot something and it moves randomly to the side, when there is zero reason for it to move there, no ally standing there, no debris in the way, nothing., and thats me aiming for the body with a big ass bolt.

I agree on the point that huntsman has his ult, which makes him not use ammo and thats more then enough to deal with those annoying situations without hitting headshots. But i can completely understand the frustration outside of the ultimate.

Also don’t have to forget the higher you go in difficulties, the more the game throws are you and the faster you have to kill certain threats. Which makes waiting for an assassin (for example) to stop running and be in his leap windup (where its easier to headshot him) no always possible in every situation.

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ping doesn’t affect aim, however, it does affect how much risk you’re taking when switching to a ranged weapon

All of Kruber’s ranged weapons can be built to get extremely reliable bodyshot breakpoints which along with Huntsman’s 10% ammo gain on special kills should circumvent the need to headshot for sustain. In addition one could give up Hunter on their weapon in exchange for conservative shooter (or scrounger depending on weapon choice) to get even further sustain if you’re only landing occasional headshots/not breaking even with only Waste Not, Want Not+ult

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Yes i agree with you. Huntsman is the headshot guy, but tbh he can be effective, even when not headshotting consistently.

I can understand the frustration though for players that expect to headshot and feel like they are not reaching his full potential when they miss a headshot. If the situations then occur, like i mentioned above, then they might blame the game. When in reality there is already alot of 'safety nets" in the game and those buggy situations are not that detrimental to the careers performance (maybe in some very niche scenario’s). This is also why i’m not really a huge fan of sure shot, but if it helps some players feel less punished for missing a headshot, then i don’t really mind. (just don’t make it too easy)

edit: i just noticed i might of dramatized it a bit too much in the first comment above. nevertheless, The situations exist though and are annoying, but in reality it doesn’t really have much of an impact, due to ult, etc.

?.. enemies aren’t where you think they are.

But what is the point? (no irony or sarcams from me)

Blunderbuss and Rep Gun clearly aren’t meant to headshot… you are right. Indeed, playing those weapons, we waste half HS’ talents tree.

Handgun is another weird case… its main advantage is the ability to bodyshot almost everything (thanks God!)… but, once again, talents’ need headshot (for example the precious Thrill of the Hunt).

Dunno… that Empire Longbow is extremely reliable about bodyshot… I don’t agree so much. Afterall the only breakpoint that can get over “its rivales” (Elf Bow and Crossbow) is vs Packmaster.

From my pov, Huntsman needs a huge rework… he “stacks” badly with half of his arsenal… he needs headshots to make his talents work… in a game where “headshots aren’t so clean”… and the reward he gets is nothing so unique/special.

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I’d rather they just made Hunts’ melee more comfortable/diverse whether it be through gaining thp on cleave or some other mechanic/talent choices

His ranged is strong enough imo and isn’t the thing that needs buffing

literally not how ping in this game works, I play at 300+ ping on average and that’s not a thing.

No? he has multiple builds and talents that don’t rely on headshots much if at all

That…Those are extremely reliable bodyshot breakpoints still

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What incandescent meant is that huntsman doesn’t need to reliably headshot to be able to never run out of ammo, or to trigger his talents. You can headshot once and bodyshot after that, untill the buff runs out. Can he spam like waystalker and have the same ammo regen as her? not at all. But does huntsman have trouble getting ammo? i wouldn’t say so.

The only reason you would need to consistently headshot is for damage, (i’m not really knowledgable on huntsman breakpoints) but if huntsman can reach great bodyshot bp’s, then i wouldn’t really say its an issue.

Genuinly curious. Ping does delay inputs and delays enemies for me atleast. whenever i play on 150+ ping i can notice it.

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