I didn’t bring up the metrics. I made a plain argument about what I think about them, and I’ve continued discussing them as people have continued to respond to the content of my posts.
If you don’t want to participate in responding to the content of my posts, you are free to ignore me.
“Rapid, focused iteration” within playtests, I mean. Something gets introduced to test and then changes are suggested & implemented on a daily basis until the results are satisfactory. I mentioned it before but this is how the Crusher rework happened, for example. Collaborative design effort between a dev and a couple of testers over the span of a few days.
Keep in mind that the playtest exists to help the developers, so the game designers and programmers and level designers and so on, test and refine upcoming content. It’s not a place where we interface with leadership about the overall course of the game. I feel like there’s a misunderstanding about the scope and purpose of the program in this thread, so I hope you find this illuminating.
The very downside is that this is how the Crusher rework happened but the power maul has been unloved and nobody cares about it enough to do the same. Presumably cause nobody among the limited amount of people is really interested in it. Broader testing would help. Not totally public, but broader.
Just an example of course, there’s a lot of other things that have been straight up left behind for a long time now. More people with more varied interests would help here.
There’s also the occasional weird guy with weird stuck up opinions thing happening with small groups. I remember in the VT2 closed testing there was one guy in particular who was EXTREMELY insistent that the elf spear can cleave down chaos warriors and needs to get nerfed. I think his feedback got through despite me showing various videos of it being made up.
Now that paints a very interesting picture for me. Management is in complete isolation from the realities of what’s actually going on and we’re unable to communicate to them our pain points. How quaint.
Not true! I love Paul and am still trying to get something done about it. But gamedev is a matter of prioritisation as much as passion. Every moment spent tweaking old weapons by a developer on the combat team is one that isn’t spent on making new weapons, for example, and we both know how much the community has been begging for the latter.
So if it’s completely up to the devs, what’s the reasonable scenario under which they decided the crusher needs an overhaul now, but not the powermaul (or that it can wait)? Did they decide on their own or go by playtester feedback? I assumed the latter hence my point. If there were more people like you who cared for the power maul in the team surely the devs would’ve gotten more feedback about it and done something by now? Especially since the crusher was clearly more viable pre-rework than the power maul.
Something as core to the gameplay as crafting NEEDS to be done right this time around because fact of the matter is there won’t be a 3rd attempt to rework this system.
This is why i heavily agree with the sentiment that something like this should be done with open testing instead of being left to the few odd people. Like i don’t doubt the ability of the people doing closed testing, i’ve personally seen what it can be in vermintide2 days, but its still easy to miss stuff.
Talent update kinda worked, but even that had many pain points that could of easily been fixed with 1-2 weeks of number tweaking and changes.
I’m sure Fatshark has internal channels for people whose job it is to report to management, like the CMs, to pass along feedback. But I don’t know anything about Fatshark’s C-suite so I’m afraid this is where my explanation of their way of working ends.
Just a matter of running out of time to make any more changes before having to move on to the next feature release. The details are not very interesting, nor am I allowed to be specific.
Ah yes. CMs have been passing feedback ever since “Beta” and we’re still here, 2 years later.
I’m not arguing they should’ve done double the work (even though they should have), I’m just making the argument that I’m sure the playtester feedback affects their priorization. If there were more playtesters then the power maul would’ve correctly received more negative feedback than the crusher i’m sure. It deserved the overhaul more and the crusher is a top tier weapon now. To me that’s pure bias, zealot playtesters getting their way over the other ones. The more varied playtesters you have the more you get rid of statistical biases like this.
This is just an example of that dynamic too. When it comes to biases like this it’s pretty obvious to me that the psyker playtesters are REALLY good at arguing for psyker buffs.
So not to go into too much detail here but I can assure you that really isn’t how it works lol
So Fatshark just decides on a rework of a weapon on their own without considering playtester feedback? That’s worse to me
Ever since patch 13 I’m convinced that the whole community testing team just hates Vet.
That’s a basic way of looking at the issue.
There is a difference between criticising a company for it’s Fomo shop… And then pointing out that some of the money is going to China and is being used to help strip the people of Hong Kong of the freedoms and human rights.
It’s why I hate Amazon, it’s flooded with cheap Chinese knock offs, produced by people with rights barely better than slavery.
And they use stuff like no political talk to silence those that are pointing out facts, highlighting these issues.
LOL!! People are flagging this? Seriously? Some of you need to grow a back bone and grow up to the fact the world is not as nice as you think.
You know which Ogryn weapons were also in a terribly sorry state? The mk4 cleaver and the Achlys stubber. Look at them now! You have to look at the whole picture of everything that was changed, instead of only comparing Crusher and Paul and then concluding – without any further information about the process – “the Zealot playtesters must be favoured”. That’s a BIG reach without any facts to back it up.
Please. Indulge us. Don’t tease.
Those weapons arguably weren’t even remotely as bad as the power maul though so you’re proving my point about the biases
Exactly. The problem with a very select group, is that they have a very select group of issues.
And that solves nothing.