I’m reading through the 240+ replies since last view (WOW, lots of engagement happening, much of it resulting from @Hank_jw’s appearance and comments, thanks!)
I appreciate you popping in.
I’m finding certain points made interesting…
By community “we” mean a small, insular group of people who are typically content creators rather than any actual lay-member of the playerbase.
If the same causes are being championed on multiple fronts, you’d think progress would have been made ages ago on several key aspects of the game receiving critical feedback.
True, but given Fatshark seem to be slow to engage any feedback whatsoever, it seems like they’re actively choosing to ignore this because it gives them opportunities to make claims like “the silent majority” apply to even those that are actually voicing criticism, just not through their selected “community”.
This would again be wholly accurate if Fatshark actually did bother with “rapid, focused iterations” in hotfixes or updates… which they don’t.
To be fair… there basically wasn’t a crafting system ready for beta. What was implemented was functionally and mechanically incomplete. Blessings weren’t even present (doubtless many held out hope that with blessings being implemented the crafting system would feel more robust, but, for fool them with hindsight).
Yes, FS is doing work to keep hooking in new players, and it’s hopefully working. Seems to be. That’s a good thing, updates that get people playing.
Let’s circle back regularly. The same pattern will be evident, I feel confident saying. VT2 getting free updates after all these years is a testament to the success of the game. DT is, in my opinion, a better game and the numbers seem to agree with that, despite VT2 having years more content.
There’s no reason to think DT won’t get the same treatment as VT2, unless it is your opinion that the game is a failure. I don’t think FS agrees, but I guess we’ll see!
The trends don’t suggest new players, but returning players that come to check out new stuff and then drop off again to VT2 levels. For my own experience, of all the people I know that picked up Darktide, only one picked it up much after Launch, after patch 13 when a bunch of us got back into Darktide, and now that player is deeper into HD2 than anyone else.
Right? From this it seems like FS is (and always has been) told the same thing by every possible avenue of feedback, even their tightly controlled “community” playtest group of less than a couple dozen people. And yet…despite longstanding consistent feedback, with a game that launched Q4 2022 and we’re in Q2 2024, and we’re still waiting to see meaningful action on some of those issues.
Somehow pennances were a greater dev priority than crafting?
My money is on some random exec deciding there absolutely needed to be a ‘grind’ system. Hence why the penances are so weird and unintuitive and give so little, and why they came out first.
Can’t just let people unlock everything and have fun with it, dontcha know.
Yes, forgot about DT but back in the VT2 beta they had playtests you could sign up for normally. I was in them and and gave them feedback on melee weapons and we had actual constructive discussions about them. Then the game released and they pushed a wrong build that doubles everyones hero power throwing all the intricate balance out the window, then they just ran with it because “players are already used to it lol” and certain community elements encouraged them to keep it
Mind enlightening me on what this means? Nemy thinks I can’t read. Is there something in my response to you that suggested I didn’t read your post or respond to your intended message?
What is this assertion based on? And why is it important?
To the latter: new players would mean +$40 (or $24 or whatever on sale, like now) for FS, which is good. But their monetization scheme is also about cosmetic purchases, which new and old players can both do. So the average concurrent player numbers being better than VT2 seems very likely to be a positive thing to me, no matter where those players are coming from.
Yeah them insisting to keep calling it that is probably a very hard tell that it’s going to be red weapons only with no significant changes to how crafting works (or something to this extent). Hopefully it will improve the overall system and it won’t just be VT1 contracts slapped on, but who knows.
You’re putting words in my mouth my guy. I said that you’re misinterpreting what I was saying. And it seems to be the case again here. You just say whatever you want without adressing what people say. I believe that’s @AsukasHeadphones ’ issue here
I was trying to be succinct, but maybe I missed the mark. Is it fair to say you don’t think I understand things people say and then don’t respond to the intent of their messages? Mind explaining how I did that to Asuka in this instance?
If I want to be optimistic I’d say you’re coming from a good place in a sense that you have very strong positive feelings towards Darktide/Fatshark and get an urge to protect/defend them whenever people post critical opinions. Which is well intentioned, sure, but not exactly the correct thing to do.
Your mistake is that you just jump at the first keyword you read and supply a, at best tangential, ‘but look at good thing x’ argument without engaging in the actual issue people are bringing up. Hence the frustration in people.
My own (admittedly subjective) experience with multiple playgroups, and the fact that there is no sustained growth after these bumps, it reverts to the same mean average rates as VT2.
It’s important because it means the game isn’t growing and drawing in substantial numbers of new people/revenue, it’s just getting the existing base briefly re-interested every few months. Practically everyone here talking has been here for months if not years, the level of new blood that just got into the game and is partaking in discussions is practically nonexistent.
The average number of players is only significantly better than VT2 in the aftermath of a single large update and very minorly after another update. Both before and a few months after Patch 13, Darktide was back at VT2 numbers, and again, both titles are far close to each other than any competition, certainly not enough on that alone to show that Darktide is meaningly more successful than VT2 as opposed to just newer.
If your average play rates are substantially below all your competition, and where releases don’t generate sustained growth relative to your older products, and where even with the largest bump only barely managed to briefly meet the lightest of your competition, you’re probably not bringing much revenue in by comparison.
I put a lot of effort into not talking out of my ass, providing links and other hard data, to back up my opinions. I make no effort to “jump on the first keyword” I read, don’t think I ever dodge the arguments I explicitly respond to (sorry, I will not and do not, just like everyone else here, respond to every single argument from every single person in a thread), and think your portrayal is a grossly distorted oversimplification of my participation on this forum.
But props for not just being overtly rude in this response.
Average concurrent player count (which I think is the most reliable metric for player base health because, with the global nature of gaming, peak players just doesn’t speak to people putting consistent hours in) has only been better in VT2 in June & July of last year.
DT was in a much worse state then, and it seems likely to me that numbers will continue to be higher for DT than VT2.
As for anecdotal evidence (to clarify, I am referencing your previous reply here): I put no faith in that, but if we’re playing that game I see posts from new players regularly on the Reddit/Discord. I say this only because it means as much as your friend group checking out after each update.
But all that is beside my main point, because…
And VT2 is what I think is a “successful” game: supported with free updates for many many years. Thousands of players on at any moment. I believe DT numbers will continue to outshine VT2, but even if they don’t, maintaining this player base is all that is needed for the game to continue to get updates. And I don’t want for anything but more updates, more work to be put into the game, for free.
I can only comment on the things I notice my guy. Of course it’s an oversimplification since I’m not here to write an essay about why I think you argue the way you do. I’m merely describing my rough impressions based on casual reading. I also notice a lot of your posts in the darktide reddit, since you seem to be in every critical post or thread there as well. Asuka may or may not agree with me, but yeah it’s my personal view of things.
I’m only rude when people make genuinely stupid statements or base their argument on their personal lack of mechanical skill kek
Man, I’m just fatigued by the guy always playing up to Fatshark’s defense even if its uncalled for - especially in this forum where a lot of us got burned hard by Darktide. It never produces interesting discussions except for circular argumentation that favors his supporting thesis on why Fatshark good. The style just stifles discourse. See this very discussion where we’re running in circles in regards to Darktide’s player metrics.