Thanks. At that point I think it would be just better to replace her passive with something else. I just want useful passive all the time, not only when I suck and run below 50% HP whole match…
I disagree. She still gets ammo on boss kill and ammo on ability use. I still effectively have infinite ammo. The regen used to be a crutch. Now it’s to help you recover temporarily from a near death. You’re relying TOO much on a trait that was already very overpowered. Try to remember that in V1 you didn’t have ANY traits or talents. Just minor ways to help min/max damage output from orange weapons. Nerfing regen also makes Handmaiden a more viable option. I just did skittergate on Legendary and my whole team wiped on the boss fight. However, because of my increased dodge distance and versitility of my spear, I was able to finish off the boss fight. Health regeneration was so overpowered it was actually ridiculous.
If anything, you can still use the necklace trait that allows you to regenerate health to the same effect as her original heal. You’ll just have to rely on teammates healing you from nothing with the use of med kits. Also, if you want Fat Shark to take you seriously, try being less condescending in your rants and leave calm criticisms. In V1 there was NO health regen from talents or legendary necklaces so try to work on your individual performance before relying on regen crutches. kthx bye.
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You miss the point pulling out arguments that have nothing vs what I have stated as my MAIN POINT- I am being punished as a player when I play well as WS
Please tell me how do I benefit from her passive if I don’t go below 50% HP during match - please tell me how then passive is usefull to me. Please also explain me how that passive is usefull once you take 2 grims on Legendary where you are then basicelly for one shot and regen can only heal you to 50% of your remaining 25% HP- which make you being for one shot anyway- so regen is useless and does not offer ANY BENEFIT then. What is left is talent that benefits you for BAD gameplay- loosing too much HP.
So after the neft her current health regen punishes me for:
- Playing a challanging run with 2 grims because that makes her passive useless totally 100%.
- Playing very well and trying to not take damage at all. Meaning if I don’t go below 50% of my HP during match- I am basicelly left without any passive at all. At that point- they could just remove it.
Also don’t pull on me V1 argument, I am V1 vet with hunders of hours- and I do not say that regen is ok- I say whay that did (the nerf) is lazy, half-azzed and absolutely not thought through change that was being rushed.
Also you pul arguments about ammo and boss klls- I didn’t say ANYTHING about her having issue with ammo or vs bosses. My whole post (which you didn’t read at all it seems) is about MAKING HER REGEN USELESS for good player and for 2 Grims runs. Also that makes her 2 talents useless because to benefit from them- you have to play bad and loose HP below 50% to get value out of them.
Next- Neckle can be used by any career. That does not change fact that her current passive is punishing good gameplay and does not benefit at all good player. I also agreed few times with many people who posted here about changing her passive completely if you did bother to read the thread (guess you did not).
Finally- don’t tell me about FS taking me or not seriously. If they want to counter my arguments in anyway- they can do that themself. You for example didn’t counter my arguments at all, pulling some stuff about ammo and boss killing I have never said or about regen (no regen) in V1 which I have also not touched.
So try to first counter my INITIAL arguments and issues I have brought instead of talking about stuff I have never said was a problem.
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Well, it doesn’t. Tell me how uninterruptible revives helpfull, if your teammates never go down? Or how extra grey hp is helpfull, if you don’t take damage? Are lvl 20 talents punish for playing game good as well? How death immunity and bonuses for missing HP that zealot has is not punishing you for playing game well? How extra hp that Kruber merc could share is not a punishment for a team that plays flawless? That argument is stupid, give it up already!
A lot of traits and talants are aimed to help you come back from your mistakes in any way shape or form. And you don’t have to use them, but most people find them very good. And I am perfectly fine to have a very situational passive on a class that has other great tools (TF wolley is still Op imho). I think, you should look at the career overall, before calling nerf to be bad. It is a bit of experiment, but I think that elves are still playable, WS included, so they are pretty happy with how that went. They admited that balancing Legent is hard for them, so not all weapons and heroes are going to be playable, that’s just how it is.
And for nerf itself, I don’t think that her passive is useless now. It did saved me in some pretty horrible runs, so I think it’s quite good. It can give you chance to survive a front hit or random ratling bullet, so you are more likely to stuck up grey hp. And from my experience, any help is great if you are almost dead. Again, if you feel it’s bad, play smth else, I find it to bee good enough. Also, since you now still can be cheapen away by random hits, like any other mortals, it feels fare. It was soul crushing to see WS getting away with mistake that would spell doom for you, as you play other hero.
Change may be simple, but it is not lazy by any means. It remains to be a great recovery tool, but now you might want to consider other careers, because WS is not bs crazy. Which is great!
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I haven’t asked if other careers have broken passives/talent. I asked about Keri. We can start thread about others if you want. “Look at career overall”. It’s like buying new car without wheel and two tiers and saying “hey, just look at car as whole”. Well, that won’t fix what is missing/broken, no?
This thread is not about ignoring her useless now passive, it’s about to address it, highlight it and try to fix it. Going by your logic “loot at career overall”- we should all just ignore every issue, problem for every carreer because “you can still play it as it is”. Well, what do you know?
Never said she is unplayable, never said her ult is bad, never said she now lacks damage etc.
My entire point is: her passive is now useless. Does it make her not viable? No. But does it make her passive good/fixed? No, it made it broken and useless. I play Keri and always will.
But I would really prefer to have reasonable passive that works for me even when I play best I can, not only when I play worse. And not punishing me by removing my passive when I run 2 grims. Not much to ask for.
As for your arguemnts about Handmaiden uniteruptable revive passive trait- is it good? No. But does it work all the time for every player, doesn’t matter if good one or bad one, with 0, 1 or 2 Grims taken? Yes it does. Even if it sucks, at least it works and you can benefit from it all the time. Merc 5% crit chance? Always working, shade backstab- always on.
Only Keri has now passive that can only be usefull if you play bad and you are constantly below 50% HP and the only one whos passive totall stops working (or lets say doesn’t benefit anymore) if you take 2 Grims.
That is lazy change.
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It’s pretty unfair to call Fatshark lazy in this. They had a game to release. I’m guessing you’ve never launched a huge project before, but they’re worried about stuff like servers going down, gamebreaking bugs, and all kinds of other HUGE issues. Whether or not some passive is optimized for Legendary is just about last on the list.
On top of that, after thinking about this for a while, I think the passive is actually really well thought out. You HAVE to be less than 50% hp to get free ammo. You have to play PERFECTLY in order to not die to keep the passive up. That is rewarding PERFECT play, not punishing it. If you can’t play perfectly, you will die.
You can have a teammate with no crit smack you down to 50% and then you can fire arrows to your heart’s content. If that is a problem because you don’t think you can survive, play melee. They are clearly trying to limit how often you can shoot from range (which is good because it’s pretty dumb to snipe the entire map), and so they made changes to force that.
They essentially said ‘if you want to keep shooting infinitely, you get half hp.’ This is awesome. Meanwhile, your proposed changes are incredibly imba. If you had a character who could aura heal the entire team at all times, it would an auto pick or a never pick, depending on how good the numbers are. That is toxic for game balance.
No, you have to play below 50% to get benefit from passive.
So tell me If I play better than that I don’t loose below 50% HP in match- what do I get?
Also I launched many huge projects in my company and never was in place where I had to make some doubtful decision cause I had deadline close. That is called time and resource management. Seems like FS beat more than they could swallon and simple didn’t have time at all to think of better talents, traits, passives and balance them.
That is well on them, not on us. You have manage your time.
Besides what an idiotic idea of my team bringing me down to 50% just so I can use my passive and talent?? If that doesn’t sound stupid to you I don’t know what will. Also you don’t play on legendary at all it seems or even champion. Who would want to willingly loose 50% HP just to use their passive and talent if Berserker, Chaos Warrior, Mauler, boss etc. can take more than 50% of your HP with one hit.
Really…
Think of it this way: you’re selling the car (devs don’t by, they sell), and you want it to have very powerfull engine, but it also has to be in a same price category (overall balance, you don’t want some heroes to be straight forward better than others), so you try to cut corners, and ending up with rude and uncomfortable saloon. The key here: if you think some nerfs are to big, you should compare result not to how good it was, but rather to how it fares against other options you have. This why I insist on checking career as a whole, compared to other careers.
I was really hoping for some progress here. How you can say that nerf is bad, if you did not delve in other options? If “Keri” or, more appropriate, Pointy-Ears feels fare compared to other heroes, I’m totally fine with her not having any passive at all.
Heh, at least my zealot argument stands firm. Actually, there are talents that only work with at least 1 grim, so it makes perfect sence to have talents that pointless if you have 2 grims. Just choose your difficulty. If don’t take damage, but want extra arrows, well, maybe you don’t need those arrows if’re doing fine without them? And if you don’t - there you go!
Try out zealot! Huh, best class ever. Perfect combination of forgiveness and skill requirement. Or maybe, you would want to play WS as range-oriented zealot? Sounds fun, at least.
I feel that’s the core problem. I’ve been talking to some people, who were disappointed with this nerf, and they complained that they now actually have to use meele wepons! What a nuisance! I think ranged careers wre designed to have 40% ranged and 60% meele damage at best. Mage is an exeption, but she has her own problems with overcharge, that actually require a lot of skill to manage efficiantly, on top of aiming. Game is ment to provide brutal meele experience (they said it in trailer, right?), so ranged weapons should not be used at all occasions. You should be picky with what you’re going to shoot, and struggle if you wasted ammo on non-threatening enemies. If you ask me, adding passive ammo regen on top of passive healing is an example of lazy design. So, if you’re sad, that you can no longer play 70% bow, 30% dagger/spear, just get over it. You were never ment to shoot more than stab, that’s the core of the game. I would like to see other conditions to limit her passive rather than hp cap, but I can’t think of any, that would be better.
I don’t even use Range that often. 80% of my kills are always melee, since I love melee and I only snipe specials.
I don’t care about ammo. I want passive that doesn’t punish me good gameplay and that works across all my HP pool, not only where I play bad and stop working when I take 2 grims.
Never took ammo regen talent and never had problem with ammo as my LonbBow give me from trait 1 ammo per headshot, so I don’t run out of ammo at all.
Oh, cool.
And what I want is waystalker as career to be balanced against other classes. If it takes her passive to be bad on high difficulties with 2 grims, sign me in! And I actually started this conversation because I found name of this thread a bit offensive. So, yep, as we came to our oppinions and desires, there probably no point to continue.
I tried to think of other ways to balance regen, you know, make it simmilar to battle wizard ability, that vents when she is not casting and not taking damage for a period of time. For example, if you deal no damage and take no damage for 8 seconds, you will start regenerating, but I don’t think it will be fun, just goes against what I think this game needs. But it is cool thematically, you know. Actually, I’m interested in your oppinion on suggested solution. Would you prefer regeneration to only work if you don’t fight, but with no cap to it?
If it takes her passive to be bad on high difficulties with 2 grims, sign me in
It makes it useless, not just bad. And you are pretty biased.
Ha-ha, pretty much so. But I got my reasons: I want to see more variety, and now there are just to many waystalkers for my liking.
What about it though?
In Vermintide you constantly fight so it would be useless too. Besides I doubt game defines what is in the fight- something aggro you, you attack it, are you in fight if you don’t attack or took damage? If one of your teammates fight- are you in fight.
Too complicated for a passive mechanic tbh.
People always loved elves and will like to play them. Same as ninjas, assassins, rogues etc. in any other games- there is always more player on them because they are “cool” classes You will always see more of those becasue that’s how it works.
I don’t mind them just removing regen and giving her different passive. I just don’t want passive that becomes useless at some point in match or even all the time.
So what about my Kerrigan where I was 70% melee, 30% ranged and never used the ammo regen/ammo on ult talents because I was primarily a support melee with ult used to remove special/save hookrat or runner victims while using 2h sword and longbow?
Not everyone plays cookie cutter builds that benefit from poorly designed talents. Some players like playing a niche that isn’t about high scores. Infact I did the build primarily because I was sick of having bad team mates in the beta.
Now I may as go play Ironbreaker to carry teams by my personal gameplay since being supportive is being punished over individual balance.
Want to change stuff around? Give hand maiden the old regen, and talents affecting it, as an aura so there’s a reason to play her and just give WS something different like her arrows applying the same bleed effect that the Dash does since we all know that is useless. Might end up with people playing Handmaiden then.
Sounds good. Not shure how did nerf kill it, but you know better. I think you should be able to carry your team with every class, if you know it well. WS and Ironbreaker are just simplest to get into. And I will not mind handmaiden to be on top, because it actually takes more to figure her out.
Your comment is so stupid it’s not even worth to quote.
I said few times that I am all for replacing her regen completely with something else, yet you tell me I relied on regen. Get of your high horde since you don’t see ground. You don’t even bother to read whole thread. Lazy posting.
Curse resist it a item property. Weapon property should not decide if passive is working or not or if it makes is viable. Any other career whos passive depends on some random rolled item property to start making sense on 2 Grim run? No? I thought so. So don’t pull stupid arguments like that.
I don’t care what Zealot have. This is about how Keri passive is useless now. Wanna talk about if Zealot is fair or not or has simillar issues? Make a seperate thread about it and stop off-topic. If some other carrier has some stupid thing that doesn’t justify other careers having it. That’s what I call lazy balance.
Not every talent needs to have 100% benefit? Tell me which passive can’t be use anytime in game apart from Keri one?
I hope by “Get Gud” you didn’t mean like your level, cause I really don’t want to go back to recruit now.
Fatshark I heard from few people that you have said that Keri ammo regen and team regen talent should not be tied to her 50% treshold and you are gonna fix it. I am ok with that and if it’s true I am glad that you are working on it. Though I still think you should just replace her passive regen
But while you are fixing it- please fix her passive with 2 Grims equiped. Currently 2 Grims simple turn off her passive. Make her passive not count 2 Grims as her max HP. This way her passive will her greatly with 2 Grim runs as it will allow her to heal remaining 25% of max HP.
Otherwise you punish challange grim runs with her current passive making it simply…removed.
Maybe he just wanted to give you a workaround until it is fixed? At the moment everyone is complaining about everything and Fatshark has to distinguish which of these are valid or not. Passive regen of Kerillian was too strong before, now it is useless. They love their games and have a hard time balancing it, as they did with VT1.
My advice is: try a different career path for now, maybe you like it.
They already confirmed OP stuff will be nerfed, but UP stuff will be buffed. I bet they’re working hard on it. I already noticed some changes in the talents of Sienna’s trees already, making them considerable now.
I didn’t test the thing with grims, but that sounds awful.
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From another thread:
Turns out it was not lazy devs, but devs doing their job. Who would’ve guessed.
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Here’s another way to think about it – having the heal/ammo regen kick in at below half gives you a way to recover if you mess up. You can fight from range and get some ammo back until you find a health potion or heal up from attacks. If you fight perfectly, it doesn’t matter, but it’s there as a safety net. Same thing with Sienna reviving people with 50% damage reduction – if you play perfectly it’s useless, and if you make one mistake, you can survive without completely failing. That is not a bad thing. Contingency is part of any plan, and being able to make a comeback is important for game balance.
You seem to have a lot of time on your hands Benny… I’m not sure why you’re putting so much energy into arguing about one skill in one subclass in the highest difficulty when there are so many other things to discuss in this game, but hey it’s your life. I’ve played Ker in recruit just to try her out, and I think her passive is great. Full heal is way too OP, and half heal lets a player make a few mistakes without being totally useless.
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