Fatshark 'open to conversation' on Dueling Sword

[fbolduc]

In my opinion, the problem is Finesse on Weakspot.

Just do a pass to reduce Finesse multipliers for Weakspot on all weapons.

[Crayvun]

Don’t get my hopes up, don’t break my heart like this. I couldn’t bear it.

[Hank_jw]

I am not saying that it will happen. There are no guarantees, don’t get me wrong. There are a million different reasons during gamedev why things happen or don’t happen. All I’m saying that, having worked with them for a while now, I can say that Fatshark does have super passionate and hardworking people on the team. There’s a big stereotype that they’re just a bunch of lazy Swedes doing a 9-5 and checking out ASAP and going on holiday as often as possible and it ain’t like that.

[gpkgpk]

@Hank_jw

I can say that Fatshark does have super passionate and hardworking people on the team.

I think most of us can look past that american-centric “work yourself to the bone for your corporate overlords or you’re a lazy euro-commie” mentality, and the passion does shine through. I admire and respect that passion and I totally relate.

But at the same time, over the last year slowdowns and glacier-like sluggishness is apparent, so questionable changes and new bugs are left unchecked for frustratingly long periods of time, and some design changes and new systems should arguably have never been put into the game in the first place.

So this topic, giving the DS to the other 2 human archetypes being one of the most questionable decisions often comes up because it was such a blatantly bad idea that it should never have been put in-game. It’s been how long now?

The unwillingness to deal with the DS does spark “out of touch” and “lazy” comments, not totally unwarranted.
Adding to that the “well this was intended” gaslighting regarding special deactivation, first communicated to us by poor Strawhat over the holidays and now again in the recent notes breeds mistrust and lack of confidence in dealing with bad decision and obvious crippling unintended bugs in a reasonable fashion.

It’s clear something’s up over there at FS HQ, IDK if its due to some key employees leaving or what, but it’s normal for fans to be frustrated and lash out, if unfairly at times.

[DrHammer]

No one complained because it used to be alright when psyker had no melee talents. It’s quite busted after the rework. And of course if you don’t use those melee talents and run a standard staff and bubble/vent build, it’ll appear like nothing’s changed.

[Goare]

@DrHammer

No one complained because it used to be alright when psyker had no melee talents. It’s quite busted after the rework. And of course if you don’t use those melee talents and run a standard staff and bubble/vent build, it’ll appear like nothing’s changed.

I believe there were also a few dueling sword buffs over the course of the last year; blessings and finesse modifiers? Wasn’t around, regurgitating from memory. To your point, the revamped talent trees definitely had a major impact on the base weapon.

DS used to only be ‘op’ for its mobility on the defensive front on Psyker, which I could argue was already game breaking (8 min havoc runs to speed-run penances, while fun in some ways, is very cheesy), but the damage profile it currently has plus the simplicity of use creates a monster of an outlier.

[DrHammer]

In summation, it’s no longer the same weapon, used by no longer the same class.

[Headhunter]

Ogryn
Vet Plasma and VOC
DS
Maps
Zealot’s lots of damage reduction nodes
Cosmetics rotation
Havoc - rank decay and no match making

It is like being pulled into different directions to the point won’t make movement to either.

After or if DS change…

Suddenly it will become high use of Cat 3 knife as 2nd best thing, with certain perks, blessings and skill nodes for single target damage. You know it.

As long as they leave my combat axe 3 alone as I consider it mid for horde and mid for single target, good balance.

[Harridas]

Tell the people who made FGS & RB that they’re karking awesome. Love those weapons and I got a lot of fun from using them.

[Wahid]

@Khorne_Dawg

You played with some Devs too, didn’t you?

---

Yes, during the first few weeks of Havoc’s release, some developers tested the mode in pubs.

I played a couple Low Havoc games; I had already achieved True Survivor and rank 40, so I was simply spamming easy runs for penances in a trio with two devs who hosted them.

I didn’t immediately notice the dev frame they had, and when I did, I didn’t want to bother them with questions, so I just thanked them for the update, quickly asked if there was any balancing coming for Havoc (which they confirmed there was), and kept on playing.

[Khorne_Dawg]

Alright, are we done? No more ad hominems to throw? Because I’d like to get back to that sweet, uninterrupted productivity and I’m sure StrawHat would appreciate that too.

Regardless, please just buff the Infantry Lasguns already.

[Khorne_Dawg]

Yayyy, we’re so back!

[Ragnarok101]

@Khorne_Dawg

Regardless, please just buff the Infantry Lasguns already.

Agreed. Infantry las can pull its weight on Malice and with the right build on Heresy too, but the higher tiers have it completely outcompeted by the plasma gun even at its best.

I don’t think that’s the intention of the developers, considering that infantry las was originally the ‘practical’ option for everyone, especially since it was the starter weapon.

[jackjackson]

@FatsharkStrawHat

I’ll talk to the team about sharing more of our thoughts around it, so we can the conversation more two-way? Maybe a post / dev blog to share our thoughts or hesitations?

This type of dev blog / two way conversation should include other outliers as well. Plasma, Psykinetic’s aura, gold toughness spam, cooldown reduction spam etc.

Dev’s should also bear in mind that some talents are inversely related to elite density on higher difficulties. Meaning the more elites you kill the more cooldown reduction you get and vice versa. So nerfs should keep lower difficulties in mind.

[Crayvun]

@Khorne_Dawg

Regardless, please just buff the Infantry Lasguns already.

Yes.

@jackjackson

This type of dev blog / two way conversation should include other outliers as well. Plasma, Psykinetic’s aura, gold toughness spam, cooldown reduction spam etc.

Absolutely.

I mean I kinda hoped that all of those Compilation threads would have helped get this sorted by now.

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[jackjackson]

@Crayvun

I mean I kinda hoped that all of those Compilation threads would have helped get this sorted by now.

As long as no official source (@FatsharkStrawHat) acknowledges any of those threads, you may as well consider them non-existing.

It’d be cool if we could get something like a pinned “balance issues we’re monitoring” thread where Strawhat collects these types of threads just as FYI that the internel balance team/person is aware of the issue at least.

This would help mitigate the “we’re just screaming into the void at this point”- feeling a lot of people have had for the past few months and years.

Is that an option @FatsharkStrawHat ?

[FatsharkStrawHat]

Hey! Thank you for this. I think that is a good shout. And I was talking to the team about it more in a meeting today.

I have a bit less bandwidth right now leading up to the update in a couple weeks. HOWEVER, I am marking this down and will keep it moving these two weeks as best I can, and then better after the update.

I’d like to get a dev blog type thing out, where we can explain our thinking behind balancing or any hesitations, and also acknowledge what the community’s points have been and respond, etc. I want this to be a two way thing!

That said, I have to get these other things out first! Count this acknowledged! I think getting a thread where I can collect them would be nice, or something similar.

[Hank_jw]

What on earth happened in this thread dawg

The argument from earlier is now over. Keep providing civil feedback on the state of the Dueling Sword please.