If you want! I won’t know the difference between you and someone who’s just a bit better than you, and I’ll appreciate not having to be the one to kill the sniper.
Ditto on aimbots. There’s no aimbot that’s going to carry a scrub to victory on Auic Maesstroms or ruin the game for anyone otherwise. And, worst case if some mad bastard slaps together a suite of mods & external tools to fully simulate a badass player, you’ll have to suffer that cyborg for exactly 1 match.
Yikes. We’re clearly not going to see eye to eye.
You missed out on the important next partin your hurry to play it: I learned to deal with it myself because accepting your own issues is how you get better, not a mod. Phrasing it as ‘someone just a bit better’ missed the point entirely.
Atrocious attitude. Someone instantly deleting everything would very much ruin that game for myself and anyone else I know. Most people enjoy actually playing the game.
From what I’ve seen, the mods have so far been kept in reasonable check. The wall-hack mod from last week was rapidly taken down and the community downvote was limited to strictly client-side within a week. Mods that are clearly exploitative ARE being removed.
Not everyone’s happy, but that’s a sure sign of a compromise 
I think a more real issue is that not everyone is satisfied at the level of difficulty in the game, and mods that make it ‘easier’ are easy to gripe about (can of worms here I come).
can’t we do better as non-FS people?
OK, I’m interested, what would you have instead?
All of the hemming and hawing about the danger of mods, or even aimbots (which already exist and are a laugh), ruining the game is just pearl clutching. It’s not a real problem. It’s not possible for a mod, not even a flawless aimbot, to delete everything on the screen.
I’m not “in a hurry to play” or misrepresent your argument, I just don’t agree with you. You choosing to use mods or to get better is how you want to play the game. It has no effect on me, who just sees someone performing well within the hard, server-authoritative constraints that exist in the game.
You’re completely misrepresenting what I’m saying as a vendetta on all mods. This is why I initially didn’t add more to my post. I’m fine with mods in general. I’m not fine with stuff like a mod that shows a counter of the currently active specials.
My issue is with them taking a “It’s PvE so who cares?” like it’s unreasonable to be annoyed at people undermining the game’s challenge with mods that simplify it. You can debate degrees all day, but in the end I’m not going to be a fan of something like an automatic auspix solver. That’s cheesy.
It’s the exact same sort of debate around the whole “only buff” vs “balance with buffs and nerfs” crowd. A healthy game still maintains its core challenge.
Cheesy, but you’ll never know it’s being used.
And that’s my point. Whatever one’s opinion on which mods are or aren’t cheesy is irrelevant to the actual effect these mods have on them. If you think something is cheesy or undermines the challenge of the game, just don’t use it. You’ll never know if I got a lucky auspex roll or if I’m a filthy cheat. Same thing with the aimbot. The extent to which the game can be cheesed and cheated just does not rise to a level that detracts from the actual challenge of the game experienced by other players.
Hard disagree. I’ve had multiple runs already where the difficulty of the run was completely trivialized. Even on Hi5SG. Meta builds (and poor balancing), mods, etc all contribute to it. The only reason so much is ‘viable’ right now is because the power creep of the game has gone so far. There’s very clearly some people in Hi5SG who I’ve seen being carried by the aforementioned who clearly shouldn’t be there overall and then also ruin the experience when they make basic mistakes because they’re being carried by their various crutches, while making the run less fun as they delete everything until they make such a big mistake they die from it.
Sitting there and going “But you can’t prove what it is!” doesn’t change that it’s occurring. Just because someone can’t put an exact number on X number of matches screwed up by it doesn’t mean matches haven’t been.
Too many of them cross the line into cheeze and or cheat territory, see the other thread and ignore my posts. Some “accessibility” mods that could have been accessibility go far beyond that, purposely, adding features and functionality that is not human achievable.
It’s likely a bug.
I mean you made your position quite clear with statements like:
You think it’s a slippery slope towards getting EAC re-instated, I don’t think it is.
This whole “it’s PVE so it doesn’t matter” argument is just silly, it always comes up related to class balance and quickly squashed and debunked for the nonsense it, but now it has weight because a FS dev said it on discord? And you genuinely feel this way?
You think the community is self-policing? Barely, and the bar is very low. Apparently wallh4x where you have to look at the mob highlighted behind the wall is a no-no.
Community could have done better from the get-go, don’t let mods do things a human can’t do is hardly a bridge too far; there are lines and too many were crossed.
Until the next mad bastard, and the next one, and the next one…
“You don’t know if I’m cheezing/cheating so it doesn’t matter” is a baffling take, and at the very least mods shouldn’t blatantly enable that.
“If I’m putting vaseline on the baseball it doesn’t matter if you don’t know” even if you’re on my team.
Ugh, welcome to the wonderful, frustrating world of software development. There are a myriad of reasons why these things can happen, and keep happening, it’s better to google some well written articles on the subject.
As a dev, it’s a pain I know all too well.
As a gamer and paying customer, it makes me want to punch my screen sometimes.
P.S. If it makes you feel any better nobody is happy with bugs, but time and resources are sadly finite. The guilt from introducing bugs is seemingly infinite however…
Seph here. You guys need to seriously chill out.
“I’ll report this straight to the source of the weird behavior and try to get it sorted.”
Dude straight up says that he’s going to report the bug and get it sorted out. This is as much of a confirmation that this is a bug that we’re ever going to get. Fatshark is known for not being exactly clear on their intentions. Not only that, but there are two bugs marked as acknowledged rather than “Not-a-bug”, which is the intended tag for issues that are confirmed to not be bugs. It doesn’t matter if they might change this opinion later, as it stands right now they gave the okay and said they’re working on fixing it.
They did not greenlight cheats, that is still against the Fatshark Modding Policy. Anyone that makes and posts obvious cheats (Wallhacks, infinite health, instant wins) will be reported to Nexus, the Darktide Modding Discord, and through the game’s own report system and be subsequently banned from such places to prevent mass distribution. It’s happened before. Wallhacks were posted, then removed. In fact, I’ve made an active effort in the community to stifle such mods, because I know that these are the type of mods to ruin the fun in the community.
ok, so fatshark didn’t say anything if the gas is supposed to be opaque or not being able to ping stuff inside it is a bug. i guess they’ll deliberate on this and state something clear.
however i lean into what @Amelia said about exec stance not working in gas, and i don’t remember about scanning stuff? did that work a couple patches ago? i might check some videos later… but anyway, i can deal with toughness, but not being able to see is absolutely annoying.
Oh, now we’re talking about balance, and I’m all for balance. But mods do not truly, materially affect the balance of this game to the detriment of teammates. Slapping a flashlight on your revolver with Extended Weapon Customization, removing the obscuring visual effects from some weapons, or being able to ping enemies through gas do not actually break the game.
Having a visual indicator that there’s a special nearby, being able to hold the button down to full auto one of the few weapons that benefit from it, seeing the solutions on a minigame or hell even cheating to get 1/4 of the effects of one ult in the game permanently and being able to see the guys in the next room…just doesn’t add up to anywhere near what you need to trivialize the game. Not even with a plasma gun in hand.
These are just about the extent of what can be done with mods. There’s no infinite ammo, no infinite grenades, no infinite health. No teleporting, no crashing other players, no deleting enemies. You can steal some bits of information, illicitly gain some better sights on your guns, fire a gun efficiently, and do a whole lot of little customizations that change the game (like removing some visual effects clutter via your very own mod) and might make it a more enjoyable experience for you.
Good thing that’s not my “take.” My point is you don’t know because the net effect of mods on another player is practically nothing. To me, someone who uses Spidey Sense is just a person with slightly better situational awareness or better headphones…they exist! And either way, I’m happy they’re in my match!
You have lines. I have lines too. FS does too. The community has self-policed. I guess not to your satisfaction, but to mine and FS’s.
Most people know, and agree that, cheating in a competitive game is wrong because we have empathy. We know what it would be like to be cheated, how we would feel if we were the human beings on the other team. No one but the heretics is cheated by the guy who is performing marginally better than he would be without mods.
Just to wrap it all up…I don’t know what this is meant to convey. I’m going to continue to engage with the discussions around mods and the effects of mods and mods overstepping bounds and the active efforts of the modding community to work against shady mods and how I think FS’s (now officially spelled out) stance is the correct one for the health of the game. It seems you’ve recognized that a lot of my arguments are consistent. I see that yours are too. We can continue to disagree. Or not.
also this thread can be closed!
phew
No they want one thread per week…
This was referring to you sating “1 match”, as if widespread cheeze mod use isn’t a thing.
So balance, good, but mod balance is irrelevant!? How does this make sense to you?
Your second quoted paragraph, while still baffling, could be applied to any balanced talent over the last year, please reverts all the recent ogryn nerfs, FotF ranged interaction etc.
Whether or not mods add up to “trivialize the game” is not relevant, surely you can see auto-fire for RSI=good, auto-fire to do things humans can’t different? Radar to mimic hearing for accessibility is not the same as super mutant bat echo-location visual indicators.
So close!
Except me greasing up the baseball is not just cheating the opposing team, it’s also cheating MY TEAM.
Because your real stance was obfuscated, you didn’t elaborate until after the FS_Lopus quote. Had you opened with “PvE so it doesn’t matter” argument from the get-go it would have shaped this and past conversations without having to have jumped through all the hoops to get to it; it seems dishonest, and it wasn’t consistent.
Right, it’s PVE so it doesn’t matter. I can’t wait for the ogryn nerf reverts.
Y’know, at some point when someone is telling you what they believe but it seems to be “nonsense” and “baffling” and “obfuscated” and “dishonest,” maybe you should take a step back and try to reread what they’ve said.
Here’s a link to my second post on the previous thread from a week ago. Feel free to read all my posts there, if you need to. I’ve been saying the same stuff consistently.
You can’t detect these other mods because their effect is miniscule. The wall hack mod is about the maximum cheat possible, and it still wouldn’t make a tangible difference in your experience if a teammate was covertly using it. Mods aren’t a widespread problem, cheating isn’t a widespread problem. And not because it’s a PvE game. It’s because they do not and can not do anything for you that can’t be done manually or by having a smidge more skill or slightly better headphones or a computer that doesn’t have persistent audio issues. And in the one instance where they pushed the limits, by granting a permanent benefit of an ult, the community banded together to nuke it.
Oh? All the mob tracking mods have a minuscule effect? There are tons of videos demonstrating exactly what effect they have, usually “clutch” vids (the mods are doing the work). Even a layperson can see what they do and how the affect the toutcome, and why they’re used.
Unique Download # is available; you and I differ on what constitutes cheeze and cheat.
This is simply untrue, demonstrably untrue. I don’t even need to list any or express my views on this, because others have already done so.
And those have always been taken into account since day 1 of gaming. E.g. people lowering every setting so they can to see better, many popular streamers do “potato settings” etc.
And again, mods hiding behind the smokescreen of accessibility or bug workaround, of which I’m a huge proponent of, is quite telling.