I agree with this statement gunlugger is horrible to play with all the ammo gone, all the enemies gone you just end up playing support all game. there is no logical reason poing blank barrage should kill a DH in 4 seconds
Heavy hitter and FNP are both worse than zealot talents
any other class would have managed this encounter in a quicker and more fun manner
Thank you for the tag! I will collect data from this thread on everyone’s thoughts, etc. Then I’ll share that with the team.
Good video
I think cleavers (specifically the mk4) are my most used Ogryn weapon (and most used weapon in the game probably) and a lot of the issues @Reginald lists with the other marks are spot on. They kind of just lack the armor killing/singletarget options of the MK4 (which got a lot of love in a moveset update) and gain nothing from the tradeoff. Fixing up their cleave damage profiles and/or movesets a bit would give them a point again, by making them the even more lawnmowery options. More mobility on them would be welcome too, Ogryn desperately needs more variety in his weapon picks there and having a knife let him move more just makes sense.
They’re actually pretty strong weapons already, the two bad marks just fall behind hard due to moveset as mentioned and they in general lack first hit damage a bit TOO much, even the MK4. Since they’re given the “classic” sword treatment where their single target and armor pen is a bit lacking but the intention is that horde clear makes up for it, they don’t need too much of that though I think. I’m a bit conflicted on this though because at the same time you have weps like e.g. the force greatsword which does have the sword horde clear but apparently also just gets to destroy crushers and bosses and singletarget anyway, so maybe this is just one of those things that are no longer how the design works.
Cleave wise the heavy sweep at least is excellent, but on Havoc, where even with the cleave blessing I often feel like they could stand to be a little bit more slicey. Maybe better cleave damage profiles would fix that up all the same though.
Especially the batter thoughts are spot on here, it loses a bit of value the more the weapon actually kills by itself so it self regulates a bit that way. It’s definitely better for weapons to be functional without batter, as the talent isn’t available on every build.
Something I missed in the video is that I think the punch should get some of its former stagger power back, too. It feels a bit bad how anemic it feels on especially Ogryn enemies now, it visually looks like a really meaty uppercut but it doesn’t bother them that much. Maybe even let it stagger a boss once on a cooldown. Maybe let it work with no pushover to achieve these things? That’d leave it pretty anemic on other builds though. Not sure what the correct balance is for punch staggers but they just don’t feel good right now.
I will dm you with some thoughts from my experiences.
“Cleavers damage couldn’t keep up with increasing enemy health pool” describes quite a lot of weapons.
I know I’m kicking a dead horse, but the weapons that are keeping up with the current enemies are the pickaxe, shield’s heavy 1 spam, kickback, rumbler, heavy stubber.
I still vouch grenade gauntlet and ripper, but maybe I shouldn’t. And I can’t really say the achylis twin-linked stubber fits the current game either, because I hate using it without PBB.
Bumping this topic because it is important
Agreed. We are almost at the end of Jan and the lack of communication, i.e if or when he will be fixed is disappointing I had hoped @FatsharkStrawHat might have given us something, but nope, all care and no responsibility
I’m going to be real here, things are moving, but Fatshark isn’t going to be publicly talking about potential changes. I am certain Strawhat’s NDA would apply here.
I also think that Ogryn doesn’t feel good to play anymore on the high havoc levels. It feels a bit stupid that with the low mobility Ogryns have, they don’t really bring anything unique to the table, some Zealot builds are more tankier than Ogryns. Also the fact that hounds can take down a huge Ogryn feels silly. They should be able to throw the hounds around with ease. Also the lack of two handed melee weapons is weird. Who doesn’t want to have a big badass two handed clubber that throws around every enemy on the map?
Only ability that is even remotely viable is Indomitable and even that doesn’t really make an impact and is hard to use well on havoc. Playing Ogryn should feel that you are playing a lot stronger champion than the others. I doesn’t mean he has to do most damage but that strength should make some kind of a difference. If Ogryn hits a normal Poxwalker with a club, it should fly away and not just fall down for a sec. I think that making Ogryns a bit more tankier, being able to dominate dogs and maybe wrestle with the mutants + have that ability to throw enemies around with a melee hits would make him much more enjoyable to play. And it would make him the frontline he should be in a game like this. A bit slow, not a huge damage dealer but a formidable force on the battlefield.
I also think that Loyal Protector and Point-Blank Barrage should be reworked and maybe even changed totally. Wouldn’t it be cool to have something like Ogryn taking one of the enemies and using it as a weapon? First doing a big circle hit around him, clearing the horde, and then throwing that enemy to the direction you were facing? It would be a bit like Veterans VoC but in the style of an Ogryn. Or even simpler just hit the ground with his knuckles and everyone get’s thrown away. I also liked the idea of throwing barrels, maybe it could be an ability to take a big chunk of the ground and throw that and it would knock down everyone that it hits? Those abilities would not be for damage but more of a way to show Ogryns much higher strength and give him some form of a CC to help the team.
on the topic of specials specifically, I never liked the idea of Ogryn being immune to CC specials because that would make them more boring and non-interactive, but it would be cool to have unique interactions. It’s kinda weird how a mutant can just pick an Ogryn up and throw him. Should be more of a football tackle or something, still a CC of a similar duration but different from what happens to humans. Similar with dogs, the Ogryns basically just lay down voluntarily and it’s awkward and it’s what causes people to think “wow, how stupid”. Would make far more sense if the dog latched onto their throats and they stagger around trying to get it off or something, think of L4D jockeys.
sure things are moving, but do they have anything to do with Ogryn? and why did they break him in the first place? @FatsharkStrawHat she was going to get some explanations, but that was long ago. and the game is still broken for many players with connection errors, player numbers have dropped by more than half, so they can stick their heads in the dirt all they want and talk about cooking and dev blogs. I’d be willing to bet nothing is happening to the Ogryn anytime soon, as stated all care and no responsibility
There is ONE unique interaction.
You probably know that when a Mutant grabs a human, he slams them into the ground, dealing damage. Meanwhile, if he grabs an Ogryn, he simply punches them in the face.
Well, a human only gets slammed three times, but the Ogryn gets punched four times. Both deal the same damage per hit, so Ogryn actually take extra damage from Mutants.
Not quite sure how most people came to the conclusion that Ogryn is weak on havoc, quite the contrary.
I’d LOVE to be able to melee at half the efficiency on my zealot, instead of being a walking chorus and/or flamer. Big boy has access to unrivaled melee stagger, cleave and dmg, while having 70% TDR, making him by far the tankiest class in the one mode where it actually matters.
Yes, you don’t have chorus / bubble / shout, but since everyone else will, might as well bring a crapton of dmg and bully heretics around instead. You don’t need 4 defensive builds to get through havoc, unless you prefer a slugfest ofc.
shown it by now multiple times over, sadly people are hardwired that the only way to beat havoc 40 is to turtle up and stack up defense.
to the point they want ogryn to bring a shield as well, not realising mobs dont drop by being waved at with a book or die in awe from the glory of a shiny dome.
mindboggling but sad reality for randoms.
What you’re saying is that when the bubble, chrorus, shout and cleansing has been covered, the fourth player can go full DPS.
Bubble alone is enough with good players tbh, unless goo. Vet is gonna have a shout anyhow 90% of the cases.
But what I’m really saying is, more dmg leads to smoother runs more often than not, as long as there are is deadweight on the team.
Luckily, oggy does plenty dmg with shield as well, just not quite the massacre a Karl can do.
My point is that this isn’t particularly a strong point of Ogryn when any other class can fill that slot just as well once the bases have been covered. Arguably a Zealot will do that job better…
I guess you just haven’t met capable ogryns yet.