Engagement Suggestion: Replay & Grind

Hi folks,

Got back into VT2 recently and got up to speed again and had some suggestions for Fatshark. This isn’t terribly new, but given what I understand to be your goals and direction, why not consider:

  1. Make Deeds Craftable. Call it 100 scrap for Recruit, 2x for Vet, 4x for Champ, 6x for Legend, 9x for Cata. The level of the deed you choose when crafting, the map / challenges random, and the rewards 1-3 Emp chests of that difficulty based on map & challenge modifiers.
  2. Include in the rewards 1 red dust a set chance on Champ and above (17%, 33% Leg, 66% Cata).

This means a player can turn ~60 wins (assuming 10* scrap per win) into a Legend Deed with 33% chance of a red dust (the red dust is shown as a reward when crafted). This solves several issues:

  1. Creates a usage for excess scrap
  2. Creates a reliable methodology for upgrading to reds
  3. Does so with increased challenge and endless replay-ability (random deed traits)
  4. Gives you a system you can tweak (by changing chances & weightings of maps and challenges) and add to (new maps, new challenge types)
  5. Gives you another place to implement some of the new tech in weaves (add them as new challenges)
  6. Becomes somewhat self-serving: The best way to get more scrap is to get more chests per run. The best way to get more chests per run is to do your spare non-red dust deeds.
  7. Gives a new type of mission that players will want to look for in lobbies and quickplays (Deed & Deed * (red dot))
  8. Gives a good reason for mid-tier or more casual players to engage in the game (rather than the true die-hards) - gives them something they want (red dust) in a reliable fashion. This should boost average player engagement.

With management over the chances (2% chance to draw The Pit because it’s the lowest success rate) and weightings (+0.8 Emp Box modifier) you can fine-tune how players spend their time in missions by essentially reweighting what new deeds will be RNG’d into. Depending on how closely you wanted to manage it, you could rotate deed maps / challenges weekly or monthly giving players to hold on to scrap to save for ‘more beneficial’ RNG weeks where they might get maps or challenges they like.

For players, keep in mind that even if deed crafting sounds expensive (and it should, once numbers get tuned - 1000 scrap for a Cata deed isn’t that insane) since you can share these deeds your actual rate of red dust gain is anywhere from 1x to 4x the return on your spend, since these are completed by groups of players. To FatShark, I’d point out you have a couple of levers (deed cost, map rng, challenge rng, reward modifiers) that you can essentially turn into a reliable ‘player spends X time to get Y reward’ and model out your playerbase engagement.

For reference on author, I’ve got the mastery portrait completed and I’ve been in product strategy for ~15 years. I feel like this solves a host of your engagement issues in a game that I really, really enjoy.

Post script:
*Ed: Note, looks like average scrap per legend run is more like 10 scrap. Numbers have been updated accordingly. Also updated Champ coefficient and added a post script that lays math out simply.

Numbers above would suggest that to craft a red dust deed on average it would cost:
Champion: 2350 scrap per red dust (400 / .17) or ~235 wins
Legend: 1800 scrap per red dust (600 / .33) or ~180 wins
Cata: 1360 scrap per red dust (900 / .66) or ~136 wins
(easy to expand as well: Veteran at 8% (200 / .08) = 2500 scrap or 250 wins)

Now if that sounds daunting, divide it by ~3 since you’re likely to be getting red dust from other folks deeds as well. All the numbers can be played with for balance, the important thing is this puts control in the hands of the players and engages them while at the same time creating more replayability using an existing system that you can expand upon and tweak over time.


Deed crafting has been something that’s been suggested since V2 released so as much as i like you’r ideas its probably not happening any time soon.

And it would be dreadful if it is using the old resources and crafting and/or is RNG.

Deeds should be freely available to slap modifiers on a run for higher rewards, and they should be joinable/marked in the matchmaking/lobby browser.

But if you’re gonna touch them at all, binding them to loot chests and crafting materials is the wrong idea. If anything, that whole concept needs to be replaced.


I like the suggestion, mostly. I can’t agree with better rewards (chance of getting a red dust) in Cata compared to Legend, though. Cata is a DLC/paywall-exclusive difficulty. Since you can’t join a Cataclysm-difficulty game if you don’t own the WoM DLC, the Cata rewards (chances) should be the same as the Legend rewards. All players should have the same chances of getting high quality loot regardless of DLC ownership.

Maybe we’ll luck out and deeds will become available in Lohner’s Emporium? :eyes:

Yep. Why do I need to farm loot in order to be able to play the game? It makes no sense. Just put the whole system down like Old yeller and let’s move on.

I don’t see any issue with it. From the player’s perspective, they still can get the goal (red dust) via the grind, just slightly less efficiently (in terms of scrap) but with a solid amount less difficulty. If your goal is to complete the mission to get the red dust, Cata isn’t necessarily optimal even if it’s more efficient on a scrap-to-dust ratio.

Cata is harder than legend and costs more scrap to create the deeds. You might get a really easy red dust deed or you might get a really hard one, and only the most die hard players are going to want to be doing high-challenge deeds on Cata anyway. This at least gives you a reason to do them.