The Deed System : how many times have we went over this, now? (Map switch fix)

EDIT : Fatshark has listened to us and reverted the change. Praise Sigmar!

Map switching: a staple for deed players

Oh boy, was I pissed off when I saw it was fixed for good. For the unaware, we were able to start a second vote that takes priority over the primary vote. This is not the case anymore.

In the case of deeds, this essentially meant that we could change their map, difficulty and even turn them into a quickplay while retaining the deed modifiers and the deed completion. Those who have played deeds extensively will already know (that the grind is ridiculous) the following, but this trick allowed us to play any map instead of the set one, including DLC ones – deeds being strictly limited to Helmgart maps. It allowed for variety and unpredictability and therefore brought forth player retention among the small deed community. For most, though, it made the grind to 500 deeds less painful and more fun.

A brief history of map switching

Map switching is much, much older than the release date of the video linked at the beginning. It has existed ever since the release of the game as far as I’m aware, and I and many others have been using it since then.

Now, back to recent times: Fatshark already tried to fix this back in 2.1, and failed to do so as the trick was still achievable through the interactive map in the keep (it used to be possible with the hotkey). Fatshark also fixed several instances of Skippergate, and Fatshark watches Vermintide Amplified’s videos. Just kidding, I don’t know about that, but I do find it slightly suspicious that those fixes coincide with said YouTuber’s recent activity on reddit and that wording from the patch notes is identical to his video titles. Anyway, this is all fair and expected. Fixing glitches and bugs is part of their job afterall, even if they do it poorly.

Exploitability of map switching

Let’s not be candid. Map switching could be and was most likely used to switch deeds to more exploitable maps and downgrade their difficulty. Or was it? Like Novality points it out in his post on the recent Skippergate fix, such instances would be marginal, not only because said exploits weren’t known by many (and most of those who did used it for challenge and fun, not abuse), but because those weren’t even done with other people and therefore did not detract from the experience of others – as per community consensus. Although I will not argue in this sense in the case of Skippergate (way too exploitable), I will do so for deeds. Seriously, barely anyone (in my personal case: no one that I knew) ran triple modifier deeds on recruit just to make it easy. The small deed community is very much geared towards the (non-modded) endgame, and deeds are commonly done in combination with hypertwitch to increase both difficulty and loot returns. In other words, fixing map switching has done more harm than good.

The underlying issue

Fatshark fixed a nifty – and somewhat harmless – little trick without fixing the actual problem, and that’s the actual problem here. I wouldn’t have had any second thoughts had they fixed map switching along with a deed rework. But this is not case. Deeds are still incredibly hard to obtain comparatively to the expected amount of time Fatshark expects us to put into them via Okri’s Challenges, all while leaving them out in the dust in favor of a paid subsidiary system that doesn’t even award loot in the first place, weaves.

As an aside: I bear a strong disliking for the toxicity that lingers in the subreddit and the community as such behavior pushes ill-minded change forward. But I fully understand it. Fatshark, you’ve done an amazing job at messing up player retention under so many aspects that I would have never even imagined half of it nearly 2 years ago. I will keep playing because the core game is amazing and hope that, moving forward, this – along with other things like the crafting system – will see some serious work.

Back on topic, the core essence of the deed system is actually great. The execution, however, leaves much to be desired. There is a deed-only chest in the game files, and I’m sure Fatshark had their reason for not implementing it. Yet in the meantime, deeds are being left as-is at best, and forgotten at worst. In both cases, they’re in a strong need of a rework and all that we’ve heard so far is that they’re on the list of things to do. To what extent? We don’t know. To the extent of the crafting system’s red dust? Oh please, this change was welcome, but it was just a drop in the sea. Respect our play time, for the love of Sigmar!

Now, like I said, let’s not be candid. I am not expecting a deed rework right now, even if that would be amazing (when was the last time the community was surprised positively? Fortunes of War?). But there needs to be one, and not Soon™. As a player and a customer, I want want one soon, period. Yes, there are a plethora of issues to deal with, but I believe deeds are part of a very important aspect of any game based on repetition for replayability : loot. This is to put in relation with the aforementioned player retention. A minor (sometimes vocal) part of the hardcore players may only play for the so-called “pride and accomplishment”, but most player (including experienced casuals and 500h+ players) still care about loot and completionism as a statistical truism applicable to games of that type, of which I’m sure Fatshark is in fact the most aware (I am basing myself on other titles of the same genre such as PAYDAY 2 or Killing Floor 2).

Vermintide 2 has, to be succint and relatively polite, an appaling loot system. At the very least, deeds increase our odds of getting items while adding difficulty in a challenging and fun manner. They’re great. If these were reworked in a way that would allow us to play them more often and, most importantly, be more accessible, I’m sure it would do both the players and Fatshark some good on the long run. We’re the donkeys, but Fatshark isn’t putting any carrot to the stick attached to our forehead, they’re putting onions and they’re making us cry as we’re forced to slash them along rats, rotbloods, and humanoid cows making weird falling coconut noises when they walk. Please do put a carrot to end of the stick. A golden one. Give the players more incentive to play the game on the long run, to be rewarded, do yourself the favor of building yourself a positive reputation, not building Ghost Ship Game’s reputation based on your negative reputation (DRG is great btw) and your fleeing player base. I’m sure that Fatshark is capable of making a great game past its core.

Potential solutions

Like suggested earlier, deeds are currently limited. We are getting more maps as time goes, and yet they’re stuck to the same ol’ Helmgart maps. We are getting more modifiers (weeklies, weaves) as time goes, and yet deeds aren’t.
I do not claim to have found the deed panacea, but there are ways to tackle the issue while reiterating a recently emerging leitmotiv seen in Fatshark’s own official posts : tying it together (which is exceedingly funny as Martin said that they want people to play whatever they like in Vermintide 2, as if sandboxing such a game was a sound idea. I’m not a developper, but as a player, it’s not, it doesn’t attract me, that’s not what VT2 is and has been).

Now, here is a non-exhaustive list of ideas :

• Can’t the weekly be equivalent to a deed? Wasn’t it supposed to have a reward? Oh, and please, not just shillings (much less only 5: thanks for ruining dailies), but chests. Like deeds. This would essentially be a “free deed” as an introduction to newer players;

• In the vein of making deeds more accessible, some possibilites have been voiced times and times again: making a deed crafting system (look at all those resources we’re piling up), making deeds a selectable gamemode, incorporating the deed-only chest in the game, et cetera;

• In the case of crafting and gamemodes : letting us select our modifiers to increase rewards would be a great incentive for players to go for the hardest kind of deeds (double chest loot); save for Back to Basics, but that specific case is just poor design where Fatshark is at fault;

• Expanding on existing modifiers: for instance, a lot of us love Tzeentchian Twins, and although Fatshark has applied an exclusivity policy so far for events, I feel like said modifiers do not hold enough exclusiveness (unlike night time for all maps on Geheimnisnacht) to be strictly limited to weeklies. A case could also be made for weave modifiers (where applicable, not all will work) being used on deeds. This, in conjunction with a deed crafting system, could lead to us using resources such as essence to create weave-modified deeds;

• The list goes on… And so should the replies, so have at it!


Agree, they should of just made it into a feature, unless they are planning on a big deed rework and are not saying anything.


I honestly can’t understand why on earth Fatshark decided to fix this. Cataclysm deeds are a lot of fun and are more of a medium intensity challenge compared to C3O and hypertwitch, which is a very nice niche to fill. No one in the community cared that you could theoretically complete 500 deeds by playing the deeds on recruit and get a frame, and I imagine only a very small group of people did this.
Now that they fixed this, you literally can’t play Cataclysm deeds or deeds on non-Helmgart maps. Worst of all, they fixed this ‘bug’ (more like a feature that actually helped alleviate the problems with deeds) without actually reworking/fixing deeds. Now we have the worst of both worlds, very limited deeds with no way to up the challenge or pick maps that we want to play.

Loot is an entirely different subject and I personally don’t agree that loot is very impactful in this game. I’m not saying this because I’m necessarily a person who purely focuses on gameplay, but rather because loot in this game is extremely limited. This deserves a topic on it’s own, but in short:

  • gear only really starts to matter when you hit max power level. Up until then you basically use whatever has the highest power level and get the trait that you want, without touching properties.
  • then, gear is set in only 5 tiers, and it’s only the last 2 tiers that matter. Red items are the standard, because they get max property stats, and oranges if you don’t have reds, and are honestly functionally practically the same.
  • getting different tier items is completely irrelevant, since you can take any item you currently have and simply upgrade it with some basic mats that you already have hundreds of. The difference between getting an orange and a green is zero.
  • weapon customization is extremely limited.

Prior to 2.0 the only thing I wanted changed was the crafting “system” and for deeds to be more accessible. Because they are a metaphor for the game as a whole; fun, but infuriating to interact with.

I agree, this is disappointing. I understand how this was an unitended thing, and for stability’s sake probably had to go eventually, but why fix it now? The result is that there are no more possibilities for Cata Deeds, and no more possibility for Deeds outside of the 13 Helmgart maps. Also, when you have a Deed with cool modifiers, you could run it on many different maps (by purpously dying at the end to not lose the Deed). Or if you had a Deed with cool modifiers but on a lower difficulty you could still run it on higher ones. Now not any more.

I understand this bug had to be patched out sometime. And I understand it opened up exploits. But patching it out now without revamping the Deeds seems to be more of a net negative change… Could it be patched in again until the Deed rework?


You’re entirely correct. On the matter of loot impact, this game is limitative, although that does not detract from my point as it is no excuse to make a system this bad. As you said, this very much requires its own topic as it goes far beyond deeds alone. Those would not be enough to fix the RNG mess that it is. I brought it up as additional concern related to what deeds should be but aren’t (although reading back I put quite some emphasis on it in my wording, but that’s fine).

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Meh, for all I care deeds could rot in Norsca and I assume that telemetry data show that deeds are not really used much (which of course is partially due to the accessibility). But if we are discussing, I think - aside from this idea

which has been suggested several times by different people (and should be rather easy to implement since they basically have the code already in place and just need to change the “item class” of deeds to the same as weapons -

that this idea

coupled with

has some potential.

To make it short:

  • Outside from Weekly Events like Geheimnisnacht, A Quiet Drink, Sonnstill or similar the Weekly Event tab should work as a “Deed of the Week” tab (meaning you also gain your +1 on deed progression)
  • On completion of the Weekly Deed you will gain the Deed chest which drop two deeds with random modifiers on the difficulty you completed the “Deed of the Week”
  • Modifiers from current Deeds as well as Weekly Events will be pooled together for more diversity (not Weave modifiers though, they should stay separate)
  • Incorporate all available maps (depending on DLC ownership by the Chest opener) into the dropped Deeds
  • Actually, also incorporate yearly returning events into the Deed system with a small drop chance (like 1 % Chance to get a Quiet Drink or a Nightmode map)

This way you have a reliable method to acquire more deeds and you also have an entry point for new people. Bit of downside is that it will lead to “item creation” meaning that it will clutter inventory space since many people play the Weekly once due to the quests leading to two new items which currently cant be salvaged. But I guess since we had a reliable way to create new Deeds we could give them an expiration date.


This was the one bug that actually improved the game, and they just had to go ahead and fix it. Like @TmanDW said, this should not have been patched out until a proper rework of deeds was in place.

With this patch, deed rework will likely go much higher on peoples’ list of wants, and it was already pretty high according to this poll. What is your highest priority for V2? (Poll)

It would be great if we could get some news about the deed rework in the next developer update, as I am unsure where Fatshark currently stands on this subject.


or give us cata deeds that scale properely for harder better CWs or something. idk, deeds are jus the least looked into thing in this game. like an unexplored but sure to be content filled part of their game

Deeds aren’t that niche, and like what was said they are not enjoying the popularity they should because they lack accessibility under many aspects, including a lot that neither I nor others mentionned in this thread. This includes but is not limited to the ability to join on-going deeds, for instance.


I want my cata deeds with any map i feel like playing rn! Please fatshark revert the change until deed rework comes.


I did suggest this (thread) a while back, I think it’d solve a variety of their problems, create meaningful engagement, and make the grind much more enjoyable.

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Seems they’ve readded this in the experimental patch.