Deeds : A rework is needed?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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The current deed system is completely absurd. In their essence, deeds are maps with modifiers to make them more difficult. However, we are to “drop” these maps - wait, what the actual f…? Therein lies a major problem.

So here are the current issues with deeds:

- You cannot join one as a random (in-keep or already in-game);
- You cannot create one and have random people join you like Quickplay or selected maps, it is required to have people manually join you through Steam (for PC);
- Allowing people to do deeds more easily should be normal and would only contribute to make the game more interesting for new players and veterans alike;
- You are forced to rely on others in order to get deed-related challenges as it is very unlikely that you’ll have 500 deeds or more by yourself and without cheating;
- They are overly rare;
- Let me reiterate : they’re drops. Yes, it most definitely is an issue. Vermintide 2 is not a MMORPG based on items, it is a PvE co-op game oriented towards pure gameplay and player/team skill. In other words, deeds should be treated as a gamemode, not as items.

How to fix these issues?

There are many ways to do so. The least interesting one would be greatly increase their drop rate. However that would reduce the amount of other items dropped : weapons, charms, etc.; and as such should be avoided as the current system for weapons is working well (albeit with a twist when it comes to red duplicates. We desperately need an option to turn off these, since the red crafting mechanic recently implemented is far from being satisfying, but I digress).

I believe there are deeds-only chests in the game files which are not being utilized. If these were added and not prohibitively rare, it could fix the absolute mess that deeds currently are as a gamemode.

Making deeds joinable via a system similar to quickplay. Note that this could be coupled with other potential fixes.

In my opinion, the best course would be to fully treat deeds as a gamemode where we can set the difficulty and be sent into a random map with random modifiers (the randomness being there to make up for the fact that you currently can’t predict which deed you’ll drop). In other words, it would work similarly to quickplay. Nonetheless, I believe, for obvious difficulty purposes, that they should only be joinable before starting (in-keep). Those who have lost connection or crashed should have a way to reconnect as well. If someone ragequits, it’s too bad. Afterall, it is expected that deeds are end-game content and should be punishing and difficult to complete, not punishing and difficult to get.

What do you guys think about it? Fatshark developpers, is a revamp in the works?

EDIT: Regarding deed challenges, I believe that we should increase the number of deeds required in order to complete the challenges twofold as it would now be easier to do them. While doing a thousand deed for the hardest (read: most tedious) challenge is completely idiotic, it would only be fair for those who have done these before to do so.

Unfortunately Fatshark seem not to have taken in account the fact that 500 was way too extreme, considering only the hardcore no-lifers have done them, which disfavors casual players (playing casually for a few months doesn’t really get you the challenges).
By the way, before those no-lifers come crying, do bear in mind that casuals are those paying for the survival of video-games, Vermintide 2 being no exception (even if its community is quite dedicated, that’s definitely true, and that’s also great!).
Reminds me of the 25 QP for Bögenhafen weeklies which eventually got nerfed to 10 QP in a sudden comeback to reality by the developpers (you guys really have a lot of stuff to fix, your upcoming work is not to be envied if you do actually take care of these issues, which I truly hope)…

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Wanna play deeds w me im on steam as NoobSlayer… find me ill run deeds with anyone here

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I was looking forward to deeds when i heard about them prior to launch. They are extremely disappointing.

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Yes you can, just have your friends load into a game, then join you through the steam friends list. It allows you to bypass the block.

Start a QP, then cancel with F10 and put up the deed. Or just find a decent group and ask them if they want to do deeds… I know what you mean you, it does need to have it’s own matchmaking.

If I remember correctly, there are going to be new deed multipliers coming out.

You can also put up a deed and then have someone else do a QP and it will put the deed on a random map if you don’t like the current map. More hordes and enemies deal 2x damage and have 2x hp was fun on blightreaper xD

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I was gonna make a thread about this but this one will do I guess. Couple things I would do:

  1. Rebalance the loot rewards such that each mutator provides one fraction of an emperor’s chest/vault. If your mutators add up to 6 then you get 1 emps as a reward, if the mutators add up to 7 you get an emps and a peasants etc.

Under the current system you very rarely see more than one chest on offer unless you roll the right combination of ultra-hard mutators in which case you get 2 emps chests instead of 1. There needs to be more of a gradient because there are a lot of deeds that are ultra-hard but not quite hard enough to be worth 2 chests under the current system.

  1. Increase the reward for certain mutators if they both apply. No respawn + instant death is a HUGE difficulty spike, no room for error. All wandering enemies are elite + double elite health is another one.

  2. Deed of the week system.

Every week there is a new deed free for anyone to play. You can play this deed on any difficulty except recruit and as many times as you want. As with normal deeds there is no matchmaking.

There are three rewards set up as a set of weekly missions like the boganhaven chests. The first reward is to simply complete the deed on any difficulty which gives you a emperors chest. The second reward is to beat the mission on legend which gives you an emperor’s vault. The third reward is to complete the deed on legend while also completing one of the level specific achievements, this gives you an emperors vault. If the map is from the Bogenhaven DLC the third reward will be a bogenhaven chest and you can only claim if it you have that DLC.

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I said you cannot join one as in you are not able to join as a random (through server browser or a dedicated deed system, etc.). Only as a friend. I should have been more specific.

That’s not good. You’re baiting people into joining a QP that actually is a deed. While it’s tolerable when you’re loading up a map and then change to QP once someone joins (because it’s highly likely that whoever joins you will have joined through QP and not through the server browser for that precise map), it’s not for deeds.
The point is, if I’m planning on playing QP and instead join a deed, then I’m not going to stay most of the time. I’m doing QP because I want to do QP. If I want to do deeds, then I’ll do deeds. Not QP to do deeds. That’s why a revamp really is needed. We’re forced to rely on stupid tricks because there is no real system for deeds as it is right now.

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Yes, Deeds need more work. But while complete rework (into a new gamemode) could certainly be a solution, I’m in favor of a bit less drastic changes. I’ve commented on this before, but in my opinion, we could do with three changes:

  1. Rebalance and rework some modifiers. There are several modifiers with underwhelming rewards, and even more combinations of those. As the most significant one, Deprivation doesn’t allow book pickups (except a few Grimoires which skirt around the “no pickups” rule), which makes the Deed reward the better one, instead of a “bonus”. Other modifiers don’t really work as such. Abduction in particular is either insignificant, or crippling and hugely boring for the player affected, with no middle ground available at the moment, and I think Back to Basics is too harsh as is (and would be harsher if it worked completely).

  2. Integrate the Deeds into the crafting system. This would alleviate the problems of rarity, give additional use to our crafting materials (of which I personally have thousands just sitting there) and give a chance to get rid of the useless ones (such as anything from the difficulties you’ve already passed).

  3. Allow joining Deeds in progress, including through a separate queue with strangers. This will make it easier to find groups willing (and hopefully skilled enough) to do Deeds. Allowing joining through quickplay is questionable, as Deeds by their nature somewhat require knowledge about what you’re stepping into, but showing them in the Lobby Browser would be a good thing (with good indication of what Deed is going on and an option to hide Deed runs, of course).

Some QoL changes would also be nice, like the ability to sort the Deeds by different criteria. Yes, I know it’s partially doable with a certain mod. And a few more modifiers could also be fun, but those certainly shouldn’t come before the other changes.

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What about the unique punishment that is abduction + deprivation.

This is so crippling, they really did not think of appropriate rewards scaling for such level of challenge.

Although its not impossible. If everyone used NB and everyone really had their strafe and dodge game down packed air tight, I have personally survived the conditions. But the reward is extremely underwhelming. Like its really not easy, I don’t care for loot - really I don’t. But FFS give me something thats deserving of surpassing such incredible challenge.

Not many people play for such things like for the sake of strictly challenge, its not very fair.

Then theres the problem with queues.

As said before, literally a queue system for deeds is non existent. Come on guys. Thats not acceptable.

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Can we, while we’re twiddling with deeds, get some of the more interesting concepts they talked about, like True Solo and story-driven ones?

While we’re at it - a helpful change for Deeds would be to make them get “unlocked” when you get them, instead of having to unlock them again. I have zero desire to do deeds, because I don’t WANT to start enjoying them - I’ll soon run out of them. In over 500 hours of gameplay, I’ve gotten only around 50 deeds. If I could play them anytime when I do have a bunch of friends on, that would be quite nice.

(Honestly, if someone is aiming to get a buncha deeds done for the quest, send me a PM, I’m probably game.)

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Ive mentioned before ill run deeds with anyone.

I have a legend deed i want to finish today with a top class team.

Athel yenlui - legend - hordes + abduction + sudden death

Yea its not easy lol… but ive done similar

I have completed 65 deeds mostly on Legend and counting…

Anyone with balls of steel add me on steam NoobSlayer or PM me

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Hey @NoobSlayer…send me a friend request. Hanzy the Heretic.
We have a fairly regular group of people that rotate in and out.
Our main focus lately is Legend deeds. That Athel one doesnt sound too bad.
I assume you’re willing to communicate on Discord?
I mean…the no respawn modifer sucks…just dont die lol.
More hordes is easy peasy…just keep forward momentum.

IMHO the hardest deed modifiers are Vanguard coupled with HBFS.

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Hey Smoker can you elaborate on how one would do this exactly?
Never heard about it before.
It still counts as a deed for the challenge/portrait frame?

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yep, still counts. You just get a random QP map instead of the map on the deed.

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Did it earlier today that deeds been conquered, but I found you and sent a request. I am running out of deeds now.

For that particular map the dwarf went IB with flamethrower which was key with the nonstop hordes. Sienna unchained with flamestorm staff and BH Saltz. Less than 1/4 way through our BH died but he got a good show. We finished the deed 3 man

Our dwarf had 1400+ kills… i had 590 with elf and sienna had something like 700+… basically our gameplan was covering the dwarf while he roasted everything

We had a chaos spawn after the valley mid field and lost our BH shortly after that battle with hordes mixed in. Saltz got separated by gas and then immediately assassinated by a runner. It happened too quick I couldnt get to him in time as I circled around that second to catch aim on the gasrat but BH was too low health.

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Joining deeds in progress would defeat the purpose. They’d join at the end and get credit for a deed. That would not work.

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There just needs to be a seperate lobby browser for Deeds in the Keep about to start.

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As a lazy fix, sure. A dedicated gamemode would be much more welcome.

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