Deed system rework - idea

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
1

Hey!

Lots of us wrote about the deeds. @Fatshark_Hedge mentioned that it will get a rework in the future. Here is my idea that can create a true endgame content and lots of people can have fun with it:

Remove the weekly events. That would be too much. Merge it with the “custom game” option.

Here you can start a custom game with custom settings:

  • map
  • difficultly (to this point we know as custom game)
  • you can add weekly event mutators
  • you can add salvaged deed mutators (name it for example “deed shards”)

Deed shards can be obtained by

  1. killing X or more elite enemies in a single game (vanguard)
    Killing X or more special enemies in a single game (seek and destroy)
    Killing X or more infantry in a single game (send in the next wave)
    Taking X or more damage from elite enemies in a single game (harder, better, stronger, faster)
    E.t.c. If a player should get this in a single game or in a few games it depends on what it can cause in the playerbase . If it will likely make more players who will chase green circles instead of teamplay, then here is the solution:

  2. Deed shards drops from chests from champion and above. In the custom game there will be no restriction making a legend run with a deed shard which was opened from a champion chest. Lower tier chest (pesant to emperor) has lower (10-20%) drop rate, legend has average (30-50%) and any chests obtained from cataclysm have a guaranteed shard drop (with this you can reward players a little bit playing on the highest difficulty).

Other big issue with weekly: no reward. Yes, it is discouraging when you play a tzeench+vanguard weekly and you get almost nothing besides the low tier chest. A guaranteed chest is always better (for salvage at least) like only one - just the chest for the run. reward is always good if it’s a little one, it’s good too. Just reward players playing different from random match.
These chests can contain only weapons, trinkets, whatever and so on, or in higher difficulties or if there numerous mutators are present even cosmetics, illusions, or just schilling for the emporium (with this you can easily link the deeds and the new emporium. So:

In the custom game menu you can set the difficulty, the map and the mutators. As I mentioned the weekly mutators should remain “free”, these stuff people could play as many times as they want. It could go with public and private as well, like how custom game works now. You don’t need to select weekly mutator to be able to make a “deedly” game only. They could be selected together or separately.

Selecting only one mutator rewards one additional chest, the tier is emperor but only champion - no matter it was a cata run. If there are more it will give (if this is a victory) an additional predetermined chest depending on difficulty, mutator difficulty (a comradeship is much harder then a send in the next wave).
With the obtained shards you can add more challenge to the run. If you set up a legend game which has a vanguard-harder,better-tzeench then it will give 2 bonus emperor’s vault (if it’s a legend game) like the deed did. If you make an extra hard one on legend for example: comradeship-darkness-sparkling gift-vanguard-tzeench then it will give 2 emperors and a guaranteed cosmetic chest or on cata like this just with 2 cosmetic chests (shillings 100-100 in each - it should be balanced)

If players won’t need any cosmetics or illusions or craft materials or even chests because they have almost everything (like lots of us have almost all illusion and a lot of crafting material) then they could make some really nasty deeds they can challenge themselves/their friends with. Plus, it could be played by twitch mode as well for those who like to suffer. Really, that would be awesome.

I hope the dev team/game designer will read this because I think that the deed system is ready for an overhaul and this idea isn’t a bad one in my opinion. It’s just logical and simple. The weeklies are staying this way with freedom in the players hands and the deeds which makes them hard are the plus what players needs to work for a bit and what players seek when we talk about challenge and end game.

Cheers

2

i think a reason why some don’t like weeklies, including myself, is that alot of the weekly mutators are badly designed. For me they should be tweaked. Ofcourse adding incentive is a good way to get people to play the mode, but looking at twitch for example, alot play twitch or combine them with deeds because they make the game more ‘fun’ and add some randomness to every situation. Twitch doesn’t give you more rewards and still it gets played more than some weekly events. So what i try to say is adding rewards can fix the weekly event issue, but if the mutators are bad it won’t be played anyway.

Making mutators available all the time i am for that idea personally, but you can’t deny that when you get a deed its more exciting because they are ‘rare’ while there are alot of negatives to it not dropping alot, increasing drop rates or making it available to custom all the time would get rid of that ‘special feeling’ so to speak. I think ideas like you presented with shards or like others presented, by crafting, i think both those are good solutions, if it gets balanced accordingly

Adding emp chests of each difficulty as rewards depending on ur deed difficulty i think is a good reward, not so sure about cosmetic rewards tho, i like the idea of adding and adding modifiers, but the rewards would have to be capped at a certain point, they could do like in some arpgs, add +5 shillings per modifier you added over the cap or something idk.

1 Like
3

This is why this popped out of my head. I struggle with the weekly mutators as well. Lot of people say that they don’t get any higher rewards for example cata runs. Or another example: inquisitor martyr has a similar stuff, with tarrot cards. Max 3, each adds some difficulty to the match, with of course higher reward.

Rewards could lure in more people in my opinion, and for those who need gear, it is a better place. No one likes to gear up in weeks.

Sadly the WoM isn’t that endgame content as it should be, this maybe can be the top of the challenges. Always random. FoW is always fixed. Every round the same number and the same spawning points. If you memorize it, you win.

Yes, the deeds are rare. Very. But if you get shards with a predetermined loot for that exact one (vanguard or anything else), or you combine multiple shards you are in the same spot, just you have the freedom of making your own deeds with rare shards what you need to obtain as well, like now.

About the rewards that was just a quick thought, it needs to be rethought on some points. But with this new system fatshark could easily link the emporium and the deeds, rewarding players who go up to the top (much higher difficulty could reward schillings, more then 1 weekly challenge).

The game now feels a bit not-that-whole with wom and the main game. What if versus will come in?

I would try to toy with the thought what if the whole stuff was merged into this? Weave mutators as well in this custom game?

4

I must have made a hundred posts about this in the last months…

The ideal Deed mode is one where you are not dependant on RNG or grinding. It makes zero sense to lock gamemodes in this game behind such things. Vermintide has never been, is not, and should never be about grinding. Grinding just to play the way you like in this game has never had a positive influence whatsoever. (Grinding for cosmetic rewards maybe, but only with no RNG.) The whole attraction of this game has always been the gameplay itself. That is its attraction, endgame, and reward combined.

In that light: the perfect Deed mode is one where you have complete freedom to select what you want. And it should incorporate the weekly modifiers, Twitch mode, and probably Winds of Magic effects as well. Just let us select a map (or a random one) with the Deed & other modifiers we want. Not dependant on whatever resource we have in our stash. Examples: You want to select Screaming Bell, with Vanguard, no drops, Tzeenchian Twins, and fire Wind? Sounds good. Or a random map with more specials, regular bomb rats, Twitch mode (customized to your taste), and no UI? Sounds insane, but no problem.

Then the Weekly Event could still exist; It’d just be whatever combination FS came up with for that week. But It’ll streamline and de-clutter everything by combining all the (fun!) extra modes available right now.

And make the reward increase by the more crazyness you stacked, off course. The details of that I’ll not speculate about here, since the reward system could do with an overhaul itself in combination with a crafting overhaul, and that’d be another topic entirely.

5 Likes
5

What would you do about the deed frame?

6

Nothing, I guess. Doing the custom mode = completing a Deed.

7

Yes, this is exactly what i meant. But. Deeds come from chests and this is random if you get one. This is why the frames are that rare (to me they are a bit ugly), representing a time spent playing and succeeding in many challenges. To change that and be able to pick freely any deed mutators as you like or de this kind of random drop… it’s up to FS, but I think drop would be better. If everything is on your table, you will lose interest much quicker then if you need to work for something. Not too long, that’s bad too.

Sure, the frame could go to those who complete this. Or at least one deed mutator present in the custom game.

8

Deeds currently do come from chests, and that is indeed random. But it’s a crappy mechanic, and there’s no reason to keep that for possible reworks. And if I have to choose between a “meaningful” frame or a good system, I’d choose the latter always. And the frame isn’t that meaningful currently, as a lot of people got it by sharing Deeds and cheesing them on recruit speedruns.

1 Like
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There could be some more for let’s say 1k, 2k 5k “Deeds” :grin: it sounds absurdly high but i guess if FS is doing a system like the one @TmanDW described, I couldn’t stop playing it :scream: cause that sounds exactly like it should be working imho. Just one thing: remove “Back to Basics” PLEASE! :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

The only thing I can’t see for future deed system are the winds… it would be super cool to have them as a mutator instead of locked behind those Weaves but since they are all “handcrafted” I think it will be kinda hard for FS to make em more variable… since variability and adaptive systems are not FS strength… feels like everything must be complicated (even rats in the keep :rofl: )

2 Likes
10

Just speaking for me personally, I can absolutely deny this. The fun mutators aren’t better because they are rare, they are better because they present an interesting challenge. Reducing people’s ability to do content they find fun and challenging doesn’t make the content better.

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11

Not saying mutators are more fun because they are ‘rare’. i agree that they are fun because they give a challenge and mutate the vanilla experience. It’s hard for me to put it into words but deeds will have no use if they make mutators available al the time. Like for example; They can let us add any mutator but at a cost per mutator + increased reward, would still give some engagement in the content, let us use our crafting dust etc. They could add hardcore deeds where if you fail you lose ur crafted deed. Don’t get me wrong i dont want deeds to be super rare and add another super long grind just to play or craft a deed, but i dont want to get them for free aswell.

12

Deeds should e accessible trhough quickplay
if a players leaves the deed, no new players can join and it’s imposssible to complete the deed
i have millions of deeds, other players don’t have any
if I host, it would be great to let other players join, in a deeds quickplay menu

2 Likes
13

I think they should be free. I see no reason to lock a game mode behind an artificial wall. I think combining all of the random game modes into a “custom game” makes a ton of sense. There would be less splitting of the player base and people could actually do content they want to do. I’m 100% ok with getting rid of deeds as a loot item. That’s just my opinion, though.

3 Likes
14

Yes! Now even Steam friends can’t join which is beyond absurd. If I squint hard enough I can see the reason behind it, to stop people from joining 15 meters prior to the bridge back to keep. Although by that logic, QP & lobby browser join should not work for ongoing games either, or should not reward the player anything but XP for the distance traveled like it is when you fail a mission.

Allow at least friends to join deeds, and preferably allow anyone to join, unless set to private. Also, the lobby browser must show that it is a deed that is ongoing.

Allow us to rename lobbies please! Announcing that you are looking for deeds (now prior to an overhaul to the system), or playing them (even if you havent still started one), or for any reason like “I’m a noob help plz”

On the rework itself, I 100% agree with everyone that the modifiers should be included in the custom game selection as an option. Loot can come with the same math it comes now, certain combinations give certain quality and quantity.

2 Likes
15

This would be appropriate for the “custom game” filter I think. It would also likely be the best version of a group finder at this date.

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I like the idea of having smth like a “deed builder” in the custom game tab, you can choose your mutators and get rewards accordingly. It could also be smth like a bet and win system for shillings.
like @anon75893681 said

lets say you can craft the deed for free but have smth like a participation fee.
(maybe 1 up to 5 Shillings equal to a daily, so you can atleast try 1 deed/day) and get rewards like double, tripple, etc. of your stake accordingly.

The thing is, this has it’s ups and downs… it’s kind of a gambling system that adds advantage for ppl with a lot of playtime and high win rates and needs some regulation/restrictions maybe to prevent infinte shilling generation :scream: BUT it would also engage players to finish the deed, it’s really the most annoying thing if ppl leave games esp in deeds… ESP IF IT’S THE HOST :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: Another option to prevent this is ofc the possibility to join/rejoin deeds in progress (combined with my suggestion they should join for free and only get the stake without reward multipliers). Problematic are game stability and connectivity issues since I’m not sure if it’s possible to analyse if ppl leave or just crashed, so they could get their shillings back. :thinking: If that would be possible I would also support host and shilling penalty for the good old rage quitter.