60% BCR with any normal weapon will let a weapon block 20 Clan rat attacks from the front (they do 0.3 stamina damage at this level of BCR, so 20*0.3=6 stamina, 6 stamina is 3 stamina shields).
That’s true. However, it’s a perk that is less passive than others. It enables more aggressive plays which I’m a fan of. It could have a cap added of a certain number of attacks to prevent scaling into hyperdensity (hyperdensity is supposed to not exist but I’m not bothered if Eternal Guard is made not good against it). Outside of that, I think it’s fine.
Thanks. I wish I had that much foresight, I just do a lot of improvisation in my runs.
@Velsix
Killing Shot is fine for Legend and below… or maybe just a little redundant considering how much damage WHC can stack.
It’s more valuable in Cataclysm but enemies are still pretty squishy.
Not much point in changing it unless you’re balancing around modded or want to curb Rapier light attacks insta killing full health elites.
If you want to curb Rapier lights insta killing full health elites, a damage threshold requirement could achieve this… e.g the attack must deal at least 50% of the targets remaining health.
Personally, I’d skim down his unlisted passives and outright remove Witch-Hunt.
I’m sorry, but from my view, it encourages light spam with all of Saltz melee weapons. I don’t think it’s an interesting way for a class to play. The most effective solution is a simple damage increase on critical headshot that scales off of the damage characteristics of each weapon instead of just being about attack speed and crit chance. Adding a damage threshold would hurt other weapons and be something that could be bypassed by things that increase damage.
I glossed over BPs and looks like it wouldn’t hurt the other weapons but would encourage heavy attacks a little more against healthier, beefier targets (At least with Deathknell, Assassin & Witch-Hunt)
just curbs rapier one tapping full health elites with a light attack without killing critical lights entirely
but yeah I understand if you think light killing shots should go entirely
Killing Shot is one of those passives that’s either redundant or cheese and at least in my opinion, kinda already treading that line in official realm difficulties (at least with Rapier)
While I agree that the elf is the best class in game, she is also pretty squishy once she does get hit. So once you do have the skill, there is no question that she is stronger than others, but if you’re unskilled, her power is more a crutch than anything, which in the end only causes a quick death when that lack of skill is exposed.
What I really disagree with is the notion that the game should be balanced around Cataclysm. It simply shouldn’t. Most players never proceed beyond Legend and balancing the game around Cata will only skew the balance in all other difficulties.
No one but really dedicated players plays on Cata, so catering to them will not reach the majority of players. Since Cata players are made up of a small knit group anyway, I think the best solution for them, if they wanted to balance the game for Cata, would simply be mods.
She really is not squishy, all of her classes have insane thp generation, hows that squishy?
Unskilled player will die with anything thats not good argument at all.
If Elf is dominating cata without problem then on legend its even more absurdal.
That ship has already sailed a while ago now. The previous BBP was derived from a mod that specifically took Cataclysm as the base for balance, and a lot of the new stuff since is vastly overpowered for simply Legend. And stuff like bodyshot Stormvermin breakpoints for crossbow and longbow was never balanced to begin with in my opinion.
Best thing we can do now is to at least try and keep things in line for regular Cataclysm at least.
On the contrary.
This is a coop PvE game, and the difficulty scaling is based on multipliers to enemy health, as well as spawn rates changes.
This means that things that are OP on Cata, or even on Cata 3 DWONS are multiplicatively OP on lower difficulties ; and that any nerf you apply to a weapon to bring it in line for higher difficulties only fractionally affects lower ones.
I think that “balancing for higher difficulties is bad” is a fallacy that stems from games like LoL that revolve around PvP and where there are quite noticeable meta shifts based on rank (*).
I’m not saying that lower difficulties shouldn’t be taken into account when balancing, because obviously they should and that is where the majority of the player base lies ; I am saying that Champion difficulty will be balanced if Cata is balanced, and Cata will be balanced if Cata 3 DWONS is too - and that is not true the other way around.
The higher the difficulty, the more precision and fine tuning is required to actually get the balance you want, and therefore the least impact it has on lower difficulties ; whereas balancing for recruit would be much coarser and have an amplified impact in higher difficulties.
For example : buffing a weapon’s damage for recruit to change a breakpoint from 3 to 2 hits has a disproportionate impact on Cata, reducing the same weapon’s breakpoint against the same enemy from 13 to 9 hits.
On the other hand, buffing the weapon’s breakpoint for Cata from 13 to 12 hits has less and less of an impact the lower you go in difficulty, down to none on recruit. Here’s a theoretical example table I put up really quickly to illustrate - I based it on an enemy with 20 HP and a weapon dealing 7 damage - the weapon’s buff for recruit balance is upped to 10, the one for Cata is upped to 8. The HP multipliers are the ones the game currently uses.
(*) There is an argument to be made for weapons like Greatswords, which shine brighter the higher the enemy density, and that does correlate with difficulty. That means that those weapons cannot be balanced around Champion because they will be absolutely OP on higher difficulties ; or they will have to be reworked in a way that would make them lose their “high density management” niche.
That being said, it isn’t because they shine brighter in higher difficulties that they’re not good in lower, other options are more fitting is all. They’re still perfectly usable and balanced, albeit a bit boring - which isn’t a balance issue as much as a design one.
Except for IB and Zealot, all classes are pretty squishy… Even “tanky” classes like FK get punished hard for getting hit ; ultimately tankiness isn’t really a metric. A character is only as tanky as the player can dodge/block hits and as they can generate THP.
Not trying to be rude here, but the majority of players have no idea what they’re talking about, and changes aimed at cata won’t significantly impact someone playing in vet.
Numbers tweaks aimed at making things less oppressive in cata won’t impact people in lower difficulties, and you simply don’t have a good enough grasp of the game if you’re hardstuck in champ or something to be able to give proper balance feedback.
That’s a general “you” btw, not aimed at you specifically.
Also, sott is definitely not squishy, particularly if you’ve got a high THP team.
If you have a decent merc around that doesn’t sleep on his shout, then you can just swing with your sword and block with your face as SotT. It’s pretty absurd playing the zealot elf, if amusing for a run or two.
Regarding the javelin comments above. I think the reload speed is fine. Skewering through several armored units as if launched by a ballista is what’s questionable to me. Not sure what causes it, maybe it’s tied to crits or something else. I’d keep a very strong rupture specifically when going through heads, but on body-shots it feels a bit too much.
That’s just not true - bolt arrows one shot SW most of the times.
I can say one thing in javelin’s defence - it has low ammo and by having to magically summon additional javelin out of thin air you loose lots of dmg / uptime on buffs and pots.
Having said that - I think the traits that like scrounger and hs ammo trait take javelin a little bit over the top. SoTT can stack 10+ crits easily and bye-bye most monsters due to the hail of javelins.
My suggestion to nerfing it would be: remove the summoning ammo mechanic - you either get it from a dead rat or an ammo box
FS thoughtprocess: “Well hagbane is powerful but has no ammo. Let’s make a bow with unlimited ammo!”
…and still call SoTT “support”…
I’d second that - elf’s weapons should not do it imho…
I’d strongly disagree with that. Walls, when used by a non-moron, can save your team from an obvious wipe. Every single map has use for them and SoTT can totally save the whole team by a well-placed wall. But yeah, pouring more dmg is usually easier and safer.
U can never be too fast!
I hope it nver does: they should not waste time balancing pvp stuff when pve stuff is unbalanced.
GK should be nerfed.
2 rats blindside you and you’re on the ground in 2 hits.
Armored units? It doesnt cleave armor or shields as far as i know O_O
I do agree that a good wall CAN be a lifesaver, problem is, it´s extremely inconsistent and unreliable.
I´d go as far as to state that 9 outa 10 times the wall will at best just delay enemies for a while as they walk around it, most areas just have that many access points.
I’ve managed to kill several armored rats with one jav on a few ocassions, like aiming for a flame rat but also murdering the stormvermin in the way. Not sure if it was due to headshots, crits or something else. Mind you, this happened in expos during the last map, so it could be due a number of things. Or even just the killfeed being borked and attributing kills the wrong way.
It can be really good but it can also be just as disastrously bad, depends on teamcomp, cooldowns and builds.Even a WHC wont be very happy about a heap of elites delivering themselves to him if he just blew his shout some ten seconds earlier.
“edit”
Plus, you usually wont be looking for a funnel if you are trying to wall off enemy access, usually like delaying an enemy party coming in while dealing with something already there…which may or may not work at all depending on the area.
Which is often very unreliable hence why i´d state the wall is pretty dang bad by default,it´s almost like as if trueflight needed a favorable wind direction to have any range.
Yes and no. I agree for the most part but it doesn’t just boils down to # of hits.
Everything that scales with density is weaker in lower difficulties since there aren’t so many mobs.
Everything dependend on Elite/Special kills is weaker since there are fewer specials/elites.
Stuff like Killing Shot is less powerful in lower difficulties since headshots have more killpower anyway.
That is not a problem if the balancing changes for cata/cata+ just affect weapon numbers and hits to kill. But as soon as there are talent/mechanics changes lower difficulties can also be affected adversly without any cause.
For example Shade CoM nerf. I totally get why the synergy between CoM and Vanish had to be nerfed. I’m playing mostly legend and haven’t seen anybody doing it myself but I get how this can trivialise things if the player skill is high enough.
How many players who can pull this off do you think were playing champion or lower? And the CoM and CoP nerf hit those difficulties the same as cata+. But I’d wager it wasn’t a problem that needed remedy there.
But I don’t want to get stuck on specific examples. I just wanted to point out that there can be effects on lower difficulites if stuff is nerfed on legend/cata+.
