I created a forum account just for that. I have around 50 hours on Zealot and I have a lot of other major complains about its current state, but dodge nerf hit me very hard. It was the gameplay that I found fun and engaging. Since I still consider enemy ranged units to be bugged to some sort (supression related) being able to flank them and force them to melee has been a very rewarding gameplay for my team.
Since this nerf I barely use dagger and tactical axe since there is really no really good niche for them. Im forced to use descent eviscerator or god awful thunder hammer which are so clunky to use it makes me really stressed.
I did try it again, I always reflexively pressed crouch with dodge, so I always had a lot more range out of it then what most people are getting. I’d say the fatigue to dodge is unnecessary, reducing the range was all that was needed to stop people from staying out of range of the horde and forces them to use other tools to manage it. You can still slide all the way to range groups being invulnerable. And the magnetism of enemy attacks is excessive right now, where the boss in the assassination mission can track you through two back dodgeslides with his overhead swing.
All of these changes just make it feel sluggish and janky. Everything just feels so slow now, except for the bad guys who are Olympic grade sprinters with noodle armed reach. The game feels much worse to play even since the start of the beta.
I will continue to say this everywhere, We need more BUFFS not Nerfs…
I want to love this game, I want it to succeed, but for some odd reason Fatshark absolutely hates their own games or something.
They listen to some bozos who know next to nothing, and probably hop games like no tomorrow and nerf everything or want to take away fun instead of adding fun.
Please Fatshark, for the love of god, have some sense and make your game more fun.
You are NOT a Competitive 5v5, 6v6 team shooter, you are a goddamn PvE grind game.
Your progression should be fun, your loot should be rewarding, your gameplay repetition NEEDS to be on POINT. Every class should feel GOOD to play, melee and ranged combat should be phenomenal after all the testing you had with VT1 and 2.
Yeah. I sometimes wonder if devs even play their own game? I don’t understand all these nerfs, and the game is to be released in a WEEK. Psyker nerf, Zealot nerf, now dodge nerf - fun isn’t allowed. It’s too early to be nerfing, there’s millions of people that haven’t played yet. Shouldn’t nerfs and balances hit AFTER launch and gathering consensus of the general public?
Veteran sharpshooter feels like the only “finished” class, meanwhile everyone else feels lacking, and weak. Difficulty 5 had 4% completion rate in CBT, so what’s up with all the nerfs to the classes? Was 4% too high? lmao. I’m not asking for Vet to be nerfed, I’d like to see the other 3 classes to be buffed so that they feel as powerful as Vet, and have their defined role. It’s kind of dumb how Psykers can’t really be… a psyker. Psyker’s BB is dog doodoo. And a zealot can’t really be a zealot playing with low HP, toughness regen, ulting into melee range without dying to lasguns.
In VTII everyone was mobile, and powerful. An ironbreaker Bardin can beat ass as everyone else, and he’s supposedly the “tankier” playstyle. Dodge + jump gained more distance than holding W, but you don’t see people spam that unless they wanted to die. It made the game way more fun.
People complain on forums that we’re comparing Darktide to VTII too often, but devs wanted Darktide to take the good parts of VTII and make it better… Instead they took the parts of VTII and made it WORSE. I don’t see what’s wrong in comparing the two games, and learning what worked in the older game vs. what didn’t? Isn’t that the whole point of successful g ame design? lol.
That’s a bit of a big claim TBH. I think if you asked any of the veterans from the previous Tide games “PvE grind game” would be extremely uncommon as a description for these games. The lifeblood of Tide games in terms of longevity is usually a mix of challenge and variety. Nerfs are really important, because in DT we don’t have mods to tweak difficulty to our liking, so the higher difficulties being genuinely challenging is gonna make a massive difference to how long they keep a lot of us hanging around.
To be clear, I’m not saying I agree with the specific nerfs they’ve done, I’m still feeling stuff out and haven’t had the most hours to play yet, so balance is extremely hard to judge properly at this point. What I am saying is that the “never nerf” mentality you’ve posted here and elsewhere on this forum is irrational and unproductive. Some nerfs will have to happen, some will be extremely healthy (large amounts of evidence for this from VT2), others will suck. But shouting to only buff things, and avoiding discussing balance seriously helps nobody, least of all the overall game quality.
We’re too early into the game to be getting nerfs.
Previous tide games you play the grind, get gear and push for higher difficulties and stay at high difficulty because you find it fun, no? I understand not everyone will push for that higher difficulty though. Grind can simply be repetition, so yes I did PvE grind in VT2. People grind Legend/Cata cause VT2’s gameplay rep is that fun to them.
If you are over tuned and everything is a cake walk, yes nerfs are in order, but obviously that isn’t the case so there is no reason for nerfs at the moment. If something is in a good spot and you need to nerf it to make more “variety” there is a problem, because its lazy.
I’m not avoiding or stopping anyone from discussing balance and don’t recall ever doing that. I’m 65 hours into darktide pre-launch already concerned for the game.
I will concede you irrational, but unproductive? Hard disagree, especially when I see Boltgun nerf requests. They already buffed auto guns and thats GOOD, they put lots of buffs out, now put out more. If you feel like the enemies are too weak, you can buff them.
If you think something actually needs a nerf in the game’s current state please feel free to put it out there, and why. Perhaps all these other complaints people have are more reasonable, and I seem like a knee jerk reaction, but I won’t change my mentality atm.
I never avoid, run away from, or block discussion.
Please Fatshark just put it back into the game, its hard enough with the other patches and now you take away mobility from an already very underwhelming part of the game?
Nerfs shouldn’t make the game literally play worse, and I doubt Fatshark is doing this because they think the game is potentially too easy. Most players on VT2 struggle to clear legend and cataclysm, increasing difficulty is probably something they’ve done on accident knowing Fatshark. The melee changes that have happened between VT2 and DT have simply made the game feel worse compared to VT2, they should be reverted and then if more difficulty is needed (which I doubt) you can simply buff the enemies.
All reasonable, though I can definitely see why people dodge chaining faster than their allies can sprint or even faster than enemies can pursue would catch their eye. I think that is something that probably needed to be addressed sooner rather than later. Have they gone too far with the nerf? Maybe, again gonna take a lot more hours than I currently have to be confident making an assessment there.
The veteran nerfs seem all pretty soft, and he seems to be the least complained about class in terms of underperforming, so I can see why he would have been hit. Of course this could also all be based on a slew of data they have we haven’t seen. Giving more rationale and context behind these changes would definitely help. Accordingly I do disagree it’s definitively too early for nerfs. Some things are better dealt with before staying in the game too long, as the longer the community has to get used to systems that can act as a crutch, the more vicious the backlash when it does eventually get removed/toned down. Again my point isn’t necessarily that the nerfs we got were correct or executed as well as they could be, but I do think it’s important we’re open to nerfs even pre release. Things can always be walked back just like a lot of the Psyker nerfs have been, dodge changes might just need some time to adjust to.
I just want to point out that there is also an upward limit on how much you can buff enemies and retain fun gameplay, so there is a hard upper limit on how strong you can reasonably let the player character be. We should be open to multiple avenues of balance adjustments, player nerfs included.
I can definitely see why people dodge chaining faster than their allies can sprint or even faster than enemies can pursue would catch their eye.
Yes, and it’s a problem that wasn’t present in VT2 because they already knew how to make this a non-issue. Weapons in VT2 very rarely had infinite effective dodges (like the weapons that were just nerfed in DT) and didn’t have such insane dodge range multipliers that they could outpace people moving normally. All they had to do was do what they were already doing in their previous game and this would have been fine, but now they went too far and not only nerfed those weapons but nerfed a fundamental mechanic that will now make the entire game play worse as a result. VT2’s melee in pretty much every regard is better than DT’s, and it doesn’t make any sense.
Again please note I repeatedly clarified that I am not defending the specific way that went about nerfing this, just that I think arguing nothing can or should be nerfed at this stage is… questionable at best. I’m not sure why they didn’t simply nerf the dodge range/count of the prime offenders rather than a systemic change. Perhaps @Fatshark_Hedge or @Ratherdone could clarify why they went in this direction with it.
