Oh no, I hope it’s not the wrong version released issue again.
Will collected blessings be shared or silo’d?
It could go either way because weapon skins are shared… and nothing else is.
Imagine having to get lucky enough times to get T4 Thrust on multiple characters.
This line too:
So it means you can’t pull a T4 Thrust off a tactical axe and apply it to a chain axe?
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Just make it so we need to offer another item with same perk to unlock it.
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So are you against any random element at all? If so, why? Do you see other games with progression and understand the most successful of them always have random elements like this?
Randomness is an easy way to create a dynamic experience where you have to react to good/bad things that can happen. It avoids homogenization (both for the individual, and for players in general).
What do you mean by that?
- If you’re critiquing the slow reroll speed, I completely agree.
- If you’re critiquing the inability to roll exactly what you want when the cost of rerolling is 0, I completely agree.
- But as it stands, you need a ton of resources (gained only from playing the core game, not the Mourningstar)
- And with this proposal you’ll likely need considerably more (to manipulate blessings mostly; the ordos for base item rolls are already available in abundance)
- Well…getting those resources means playing actual gameplay.
Why would you think you’ll spend more time in the Mourningstar than missions? Are you saying you think you’ll make these decisions really slow?
For me:
- I discover I want more Combat Blades
- I spam-buy 10 of them for 50k ordos. (20 secs to walk and buy)
- I sell 9 of them. (9 secs)
- I raise it to green for 150 resources (20 secs to walk and buy)
- Those 150 resources represent about 25 minutes of mission time. (One mission)
- I raise it to blue for 200 resources (possibly 5 sec to analyze my prior upgrade and upgrade again)
- Well again, that’s 33 minutes worth of missions.
- I reroll perks a few times for 200 plasteel (maybe another 10 seconds)
- Again, that’s 33 minutes worth of missions.
Well at this point we’re up to 1 minute on the Mourningstar and 91 minutes in missions.
Do you see where I’m going with this?
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I can see the scenario that they described, where they have cap on dockets and crafting mats (which some people do!). It’ll just be spin, spin, spin, spin, spin.
The issue with it being random is that it’s still completely random. Yes, with the new method of buying grey weapons you eliminate that layer of RNG, but you still have all the other layers of RNG to deal with, and RNG alone, especially RNG with no mitigation and arbitary hurdles like perk and blessing locks, does not make a progression system. You aren’t working towards anything. Just spin, spin, spin, spin.
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I don’t now what’s wrong with Fatshark. They got athanor crafting system in V2 and they ignoring it. They added nurglings and a quiet drink map but locked it only for events. They somehow don’t like to use good things they have created.
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Of course a lot hinges how they
If the rates don’t require hundreds of hours to get a single T4 like it does now, it might be ok. But if:
Then we’re pretty much back where we started.
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‘Also, we will add another shait toxic ingredient into the sandwich while we are at it, and hire someone to write a really nice description of the sandwich.’
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Deck alike system would be much better, i think someone posted something like this. Offer an item to Hadron for extracting perk or blessing. Perk/blessing goes to your collection so you can use it in crafting. Choose item socket put perk or blessing you discovered via offering, pay craft materials and dockets, here is weapon/curio you want. It will also encourage you to buy items with crap stats, because you need their perk/blessing for your collection
That’s a strawman
No one has said some random elements are bad. But most of the criticism are against the complete randomization.
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No offense to others, but when I read, I have the feeling that they just want to pick one weapon and get something maxed with the blessing they want.
But, they knew perfectly it would not happen cause this idea defeats the need for a crafting system.
I am fine with the random items. I am even fine with not having the perfect weapon. I actually play with an axe that is far away of a 380 modifiers. This is a 330, but enough good. I take it cause I had a 380 Rashad, but Rashad axes are bugged, So that’s the best antax I can get considering the blessing I have got on all I have crafted. Worst thing is that I have bought it from Merk’ shop…
But, let’s say it, you can play damnation with such axe.
My flamer (Emperor, bless this overpowered weapon), has none T4 blessing. But it is a really good flamer that saved my ass yesterday when we have encountered the infinite horde bug in a map with high intensity condition on heresy difficulty… We had to run the entire map. That was really fun btw… and I thank my flamer (never used it so much than in this map where the difficulty was above the damnation high intensity maps).
But, even with a not perfect flamer, the job has been done.
Perfect weapons are not essential…
By the way, about your example… I know I will make lot of blue weapons to get a max of good blessings…
And that’s my point. Now, with this system we can hope to build a good weapon, something we want. There are few chances that it will be perfect, however, you will be able to craft something you want.
I dream of a revolver with 1 perk and 2 specific blessing… I dream of one with 2 perks and 2 specific blessing also, but I doubt it can happen. However 2 specific blessings and 1 perk, it can… Then I will work on this…
On my zealot I already have a good Bolter, an excellent brauto agri, a good flamer… miss the revolver. Now I can do it.
(I won’t talk about melees weapon, here I seriously wait this system to make decents lot of weapons…)
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Asking questions isn’t straw manning. They’re questions. They’re designed to figure out what the other dude’s actual position is.
But sure, the questions were certainly designed in a way to get the other poster to think through what they’re willing to call “casino” and whether progression should involve randomness (given nearly all major progression-based games have randomness to varying degrees).
Progression based games? This is a quickplay arcade style game, there’s no story to speak of.
You could think of it as counterstrike, a pretty popular shooter that has been around for a while you might have heard of, which has zero random weapon acquisition bullcrap!
Pick your loadout, play a game, pick another loadout or keep playing with what you have.
The weapon progression adds nothing enjoyable to the core gameplay.
Build crafting does however add variation and fun. Random bullcrap reduces build crafting possibilities and removes fun.
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I bought darktide pre-release having in my mind all the announcement and information that could be obtained before the release of the game. At the time, many suggested that weapon customization would be of a different nature - my perception at the time was that it would be possible to add scopes to weapons, some parts that would, for example, increase the rate of fire at the expense of firepower, and so on. - instead, we got, in most cases, three variants of a given weapon each, differing in rate of fire and firepower - just as customization was originally supposed to allow us to do. We got what we got… I regret that we got something different in the final, but it’s normal that the concept can change. But blocking perks and blessings is, for me, a bad solution. Let’s be honest - a good player will make use of any weapon, even a gray one, so I believe that weapons should be a form of reward for us, a tool that will make us do even better, and as such a reward, should allow us to modify as we want. I’m not against the randomization of stats - it’s an interesting element, but the system of perks and blessings has replaced the customization promised earlier - I’m opposed to blocking the ability to change both perks and blessings, because it’s an artificial restriction - if one can do well with inferior weapons, why block the customization of superior ones? Why if I invest enough resources and time can’t I get what I want? If certain combinations of perks and blessings are too “strong,” then let, for example, choosing one blessing/perk block the selection of some of the others from the pool, but not completely block the options to change anything.
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So does it matter at what level the blessing is on the weapon you sacrifice? Lets take Rending, if I sacrifice a weapon with +3 rending will that be the maximum blessing I will then be able to add to a weapon or will I then be able to add Rending 4 for instance?
It would be good to know this in advance so I can either delete stuff from my VAST collection of existing weapons or maybe lookout for these max roll blessing and add those to my VAST arsenal 
Is it still a Casino ? Yes
Is this worse than Vermintide 2 where you could have rolled a weapon 150x and still not roll the properties you want AND if you roll them then they were low rolls?
No
Do both game have ASS system for acquiring gear? Yes
Is this is system more or less the same than EVERY single gear progression game out there? Yes
WOULD I LIKE this system to be more player agency focused like Monster Hunter World (minus decorations) YES
Are people over reacting here a TAD bit? Yes
DT is just as bad to the 2nd point you had. 40 minutes rolling wasn’t fun in V2 and still isn’t fun here. They still haven’t programmed in immediate duplicate protection and the rolling 3 of the same tier of perk 3 times in a row several times is ridiculous.
At least V2 doesn’t have the gall to block off the better if still not great other perk when you roll for perks.
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Didnt they made the game just for 100 hours or so? Why then so much RNG? I can’t understand what’s in their heads.
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It just shows that fatshark has no faith in their game keeping people interested in playing so they have to keep clinging to all this secondary crap and abusing peoples addictions to grind. Just let me play your game for pete’s sake.
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No V2 which people here have 5K hours with rerolls ALL properties and a Trait.
Darktide system ISNT good
But neither was Vermintide 2
They are both bad, but this patch is definitely a VERY good step in the right direction.
I agree with everyone who says we need even more agency with gear progression
But people are blowing this way the f-ck out of proportion.
Did FS lie to us stil? yes
Is the game still NOT complete even after this patch? Yes
Does the game NEED to give shared resources and gear? Yes
But I swear to god some people here came to b-tch just for the sake of it.
Like ‘where is my crafting!!!’ - man the SHOP is essentialy 1:1 crafting compared to V2 its just called differently now