Damnation experience 2.0... we still need nerfs to make difficulties difficult again

Ranged is too powerful in general making damnation largely just a ranged challenge.

All classes have horde clear weapons, so if you chose a class that specializes in ranged you also can clear horde. You didn’t give up something to be stronger in another enough.

The game should be scaled in difficulty around meta weapons, which it wasn’t, and now they’re trying to buff other weapons to match the meta, but the game is becoming too easy.

Players shouldn’t have to self-impose challenges to make the game harder, and challenge modes should more often than not be just to make things interesting instead of the primary worthy challenge.

That is entirely because we all got better at the game.

I used a hammer because it is my best weapon. This is actually very hard. I think that has something to do with a lack of usable terrain features to funnel them to. In a stand up fight its really hard not to get overwhelmed. But I consider your broader point to be decidedly proven.

This is actually really fun to do by the way. TAKE UP THE CHALLENGE. (I will try an axe just for good measure).

Update. The axe mogs all over the Hammer. This is much much easier.

I meant in the previous video but its not relevant since we have psychaneum tests now.

Maybe it is the balance between weapons the problem?
(answer is in the question)

Not ranged… several weapons are too powerful.
Yesterday I took a bolter (damnation map off course).
I did, by far, a lot more damages that when I use a shotgun. Every crusher / bulwark / reaper lived less than 15 seconds (we were two using boltguns)…
When I use the flamer, hordes are no more a threat…
etc.

Problem is the balance of weapons.


There’s a need of, at any time, a special map is proposed that would be an equivalent of the cata mod.
So a damnation+++.
In my opinion, the game should propose for heresy and damnation, 1 mission in low intensity, 2 normals and 1 high intensity. On this you could have special conditions added.
AND, there should be a special map with a new difficulty called something like “nightmare”. A difficulty that, when you would select it, you would know that you have less than 20% to complete the mission.

Imagine that…

One zealot with flamer, one veteran with bolter, one gryn with Gorgonum heavy stubber and one psyker with surge staff… There is no challenge at all…

I know, it can suprise a lot

I regularly play with dragon breath shotty on Preacher and unload a lot towards specials and elites in a horde. No issues. Ammo management should be part of the game on higher difficulties. It is not.

Oh yes, lets make Ogryn clubs do even less damage :upside_down_face:

As preacher, you should be more in melee…
So not relevant

I play as ogryn also (i play all classes tbh).
With Ogryn, everything seems easier cause of your hp and toughness regen. And yet you have weapons equivalent in term of damages…
That’s like the PS for veteran. The problem is not the weapon, the problem is that veteran have great ranged weapons options and bonuses for these weapons.
And they have the melee weapon that can handle every enemies in the game with doing surely greatest damages. Yes the sacrifice is mobility, but you can manage that with the damages that are dealing this weapon. So the problem is that they get a too good melee weapon considering they have best options and bonus for ranged ones.
Problem of the ogryn is the same. Ogryn have greatest health, greatest toughness regen and they can deal same damages as others classes.

On a hi+STG t5 vet with bolter can get ~600k dmg, pushing forward, especially on some easy map like Enclave Baross, it’s just ridiculous how this gap is huge between any other weapon.

I did ~500k with MG12, but only because there was a psyker with surge stuff supporting me with cc (cheers), so all special damage was mostly on me. Without support it probably would be ~400-350k(?) hard to prognose tho, need more testing on hiSTG.

That fact they nerfed shooters it’s just shift balance more towards anti-elite weapons, and made bolter even more preferable choice.
I’m not sure bolter should have Shattering Impact in blessing pool, since it can damage carapace by default.

It is plasma gun should take anti-heavy target niche

Wait a minute

Those are some big claims.

Are you sure you want to say Ogryn has weapons as strong as the power sword?

It is. Shotguns don’t have much ammo on Preacher, I pushed it too the limit and on damnation games could still easily live of the land so to speak. Ammo is too plentiful on some weapons, and in terms of ammo drops in general, but then this is just my impression.

Which melee weapons are that with the exception of the Cleaver which is OP as all other weapons which have access to Slaughterer? Clubs are pretty poor at horde clear and damage vs specific enemies. Shovel is good at elite killing and terrible at horde clear. You are for ages chopping away at horde.

I believe the reason why the axe mops the floor with the hammer is that you can - faster and more consistently - stagger the crushers out of their attack animations with its weapon special and that was probably key here. That way you stop a situation where all of them start their attack animations in short succession while in close proximity to you.
Thank you for taking the time.

This definately proves, that you can engage multiple elites at a time in the currrent balance state, but I believe this mostly gets enabled by the stagger the player can dish out. If I imagine we were to nerf stagger sources as Darth Angel suggests, then you have make up for all of the aggro management you do with stagger with pure movement and I don’t see that working out.

Hey… Ogryn has also ranged weapons.
You can combine ranged and melee to clear AND elite AND horde.

As ogryn i use shovel + kickback mainly
But tried yesterday heavy stubber / cleaver… Worked great
I also like ripper / power maul…

Let’s be honest… I don’t think damnation is too easy. But I dislike solutions that are impacting more one class (here veteran) than others.
I don’t call for a nerf of Ogryn, I just point to balance issues.
What is needed, as I said it, is a new difficulty level called nightmare with special rules…
But if you want to get nerfs, then this is not the number of ammunitions that you have to look at.

Biggest problem with difficulty to me is probably still how weak melee hordes are. Bruisers seem like the equivalents for marauders/gors in VT2 yet instead of coming in significant numbers with each horde they are weirdly sporadic and under utilised. There is no equivalent of shield enemies to complicate things for high cleave clear weapons. I’m not 100% sure but it feels like elites are ambient only and don’t spawn alongside hordes.

Make horde compositions more challenging and I think that would go a long way to force more resource usage and better melee combat skills. We need sizeable mauler waves coming with the horde regularly and way more bruises mixed in to eat up some cleave and tank more hits before going down.

I’d agree with that. At the moment it sometimes feels like you are solving a puzzle when entering a new room. This way you would have more constant pressure, which considering how beloved Shock Troop Gauntlet is, is probably something the community at large wants.

Also (i keep saying it in every thread about difficulty) no stormvermins equivalent! Cata is full of them. Give us Nurgle plaguebearers as a main elites reeeeee!

I’m not 100% sure but it feels like elites are ambient only and don’t spawn alongside hordes.

I’m pretty sure it is so, i don’t see ragers or maulers come from door spawns, only poxwalkers/groaners, shotgunners sometimes, but not melee elite.
Elite roamers just dragged with hordes, yet they nerfed it in previous patch so now hordes trigger roamers less. DT Damnation hordes=V2 Legend hordes.

I would like to see elites spawn in hordes more. I will say that despite melee hordes being weaker due high effect ranged weapons, it is also the area where I see players take the most damage and are most likely to go down. So despite how easy it feels I think people die to it a lot in reality.

Totally agree. I do feel that I’ve started to see crusher patrols more and mauler assault groups seem bigger lately.

All of the ogryn weapons are actually on the weaker side. Its kind of annoying really.

Autopistols tend to do very well on damage as well right now. The powersword does too. But keep in mind doing a lot of damage doesn’t meant you effectively dealt that damage. Bolter and powersword tend to over-kill targets in most rounds. Swinging for 500 damage against a poxwalker looks good on a scoreboard but isn’t that important.


The bolter is damned slow at clearing large numbers of dreg shooters and sometimes that’s a huge problem. When a boltervet shows up in my game I find I have harder games not easier ones. The lasgun is extremely efficient at that and its one of the reasons I still think its an excellent choice despite being obviously weaker in raw damage. The scoreboard is a useful tool but doesn’t tell the whole story.

100% agree there. I do look forward to the new buffs. They may well make up the difference. There’s a number of cases where I was just a hair shy of being able to dodge again or block again and would have been able to land another attack.

Yes it does. Glad we were able to test that out.

Well it’s a fair point, i kinda compare 2 runs with not so much melee envolved (hard to say exactly was it so in both runs or it’s just a feeling) and for 1 i have scoreboard screen (lasgun run), and another one just from my memory. There also was PS in bolter run and combat axe in MG12 run. So my conclusions are very rough

I don’t remember patchnotes, but i think they nerfed ammount of dreg stalker roamers. Atleast it feels there are less of them, not 80% of run like it was, lol.

Sorry that I haven’t read all above, but here’s my take.

As I see, many people say that to increase the difficulty you need to pick worse tools basicly and set your own challenge. I have nothing against this challenge creation method, I do use it sometimes.

And I understand that if the game is too difficult it maybe not fun for many people who play this casually, also it sucks if your fav weapon gets nerfed.

But I gotta say that sometimes this method is not really fun for me, the sence of accomplishment is not that great if I didn’t use all of my guns, if I didn’t put all of me to achive it.
Also, I like to think what weapon to choose for some situations or how to play generally, it makes the process fun. I don’t think that Darktide has it, and I don’t know what is it, it may be the lack of different weapons or balance, can’t pin point it, or it maybe just me.
And I don’t want to drag my team down if I chose to challenge myself, even if they are my friends tho this can be solved if you all were doing the challenge.

To be honest, I’ve never done it in the Tide games, I just like killing the tide whilst having some challenge or the risk of failure, and generally putting all of me to sort of show of.

And, here’s what I want to say on how to fix this issue whilst not making other lives miserable, make the slope of difficulties more slope like, so that the Damnation will be really difficult, not impossible, but make this more like a skill-check, at the moment it’s almost identical to the Heresy.

I will not be taking in the account the balance in the next part, it’s another topic.

So there’s a lot of different ways to do that, most of them were probably listed above by others, and one of the laziest is to decrease the number of healing items and ammo, healing is self explanatory,
and ranged weapon not is a second weapon, so decreasing ammo’s quantity will change the player’s approach to some situations. Also, more of hoard-elites mixing would make thing a lot more painful, but I am not so sure about that part.

BUT, please do not increase the number of ranged units, I understand that this would make my life miserable, but it would limit me to standing behind the wall for the rest of my life, please. Also, it wouldn’t really make it harder, it would make the game longer.

So, to make the game harder, they just need to decrease the number of ammo and health, like, make them always have half of all charges, so we’ll decide who gets the healt, like a little decision making, talking to the team kind of stuff.

In conclusion, thank you for creating this disscusion, it made me and others think about this.
Also, thank you for reading this.

Maybe so, though i just spent a game with a bajillion hours spent ADSing my agripinaa shotgun because there was a bolter vet and 90000000 dreg shooters just yesterday. I mean i don’t mind shooting things. Its fun. But man were we stuck for ever. Thats a hard part of balancing Darktide with the mediocre stats we do have. Its why i encourage caution on nerfing things. Like the other day i flat outpreformed a zealot who brought a flamer on every metric. Is that because they were bad or because that game wasn’t suitable to their kit? Everyone talks about how good flamer is (and it is) but there can be whole sections of map where you just can’t use it. Too far, too much cover, grut it.