Personal take on current balance (patch #4)

So, with the recent mass buffs that went out, some things have of course come out broken. Other things have been broken for a while, and now that the population has had time to acclimate, every damnation match ends up as a walk in the park even in quickplay high intensity.

I’m going to speak mainly from the perspective of vet/zealot, and a little bit of psyker:

Kantrael MG XII. It’s solid. It has the best sight. It pulls out quickly. It oneshots every counterfire marked shooter with ult up, which reliably stays up til they and their elite buddies are all dead. It has reliably large dps with weakpoint shots, especially with deadly accurate. The dps matches the agripinaa infantry auto, which has worse sights, worse recoil, and worse ammo. It’s also one of the guns you can just walk around with liberally using ammo while leaving nearly all of the ammo finds for your team mates. Can we at least make a small tweak and increase the ammo consumption to 4 per shot to give the kantrael MG Ia a reason to exist?

Power sword. Yes, again. With the right perks, this thing still one shots every basic minion its cleave hits. Just needs power cycler now to have more than 2 swings again. It’s not quite as ridiculous as preorder beta, but it’s still disgusting enough to be able to sit there and watch the vet do everything against a horde while you just watch his back or help with elites. But, yea, a vet alone without a corner will struggle to solo the world with it…

Braced guns (non ogryn). Namely agripinaa viii and now the shredder autopistol. The agripinaa used to be a sleeper. Now there’s as many people roleplaying as rambo as there are roleplaying as ogryns. You can walk down a damnation map nearly without halting just spraying down the whole world. You get to have all the ammo, cause, you’re killing everything anyway, so it’s not like your team mates are using ammo. They just need to handle crushers, which should give them all their ammo back. These things are WAY TOO EFFECTIVE for not having to deal with that shooter nuance called “aiming”. They will knock down maulers/ragers and elites very quickly. They have fast swap speeds. I mean one is a pistol, so it should, but what a pistol probably should not do is flatten, in 3 shots, an armored chain axe weilding psychopath who insists on slow-walking toward you. Finally, they actually have pretty decent ammo consumption due to their large ammo pools. Just generously reduce the accuracy for hip firing these or generously reduce their ammo count.

Heavy sword. These were already meta level good with headtaker. Now you get to have +50% damage on top of that. This is a pretty reliable proc, because this is a horde game. Against pox swarms these are nearly as lol-ez as power sword, except with way faster swings, way more maneuvarability, and doesn’t have to be charged. It doesn’t even need a crit blessing to utilize the crit build due to its speed.

Flamer. It just covers way too much that this game can throw at it. Infinite penetration, great ammo economy, will stagger elites and do massive dps to anything that isn’t a crusher. With exploited mechanics, though, it does end up handling crushers too. TBH this is a fault of its functionality. It is a beam that looks cool and fiery. But I don’t feel like a power armored edgelord from a WH40k concept art spraying fire from this thing. I feel like I’m playing with videogame flamethrower #1201.

Honorable mentions:
Devil’s claw. People already solo’d damnation to this thing, why did it need a buff? Compared to the rest it’s not a huge offender, but now with +40% damage and +200% cleave, this thing will wreck the world it already did wreck, but even easier.

Agripinaa infantry auto. I mean it’s a solid gun. It’s kinda left in the dust at this point, however it is still one of the absolute strongest guns in the game ever since its buff in perorder beta. Are you really telling me you’re gonna make this thing stronger, too? This still almost feels like it’s nerfworthy at times.

Headhunters. Are a maniac damage modifier away from being way too strong.

Helbore. Swap speed tweak away from being the same.

Volleyfire, esp. Counterfire. There are going to be very few vets that don’t take this as their last feat. It’s either cause they’re bored or don’t know. As it stands now, you will basically always just kill every shooter in an encounter, or series of encounters if close enough, before it goes down. By the time it does go down, it’s usually back up again if you still needed it. Only a bribed ogryn and team mates running infront of you and knocking/killing everything out of your LMB can stop this from happening. Anyone that has ever recommended reload speed to supplement volleyfire/counterfire is just straight up wrong. Even with a mk3 helbore you can keep this skill going through natural reload+chargeup speed. This skill just needs to be harder to use. Refresh limit, shorter refresh window, CD starts after actual expiration - some or all of these and potentially more.

Chastise the wicked. Get rid of the ranged weapon interaction ASAP.

There seems to be a trend, finally, of buffs all around. Yay? But if you were on the fence about there being a difficulty 6 before, it better be clear as fricken day now that there is definitely going to be one. And thus the cycle goes: you buff everything, you nerf yourself cause the enemies will get buffed. Hooray! We get to grind all over again! Not necessarily a bad thing, but what’s the new balance going to be, and why are we OP right fkn now instead of whenever that gets introduced?

IMO, this being a tactical team game means that more care than this needs to be taken into balancing. One shot breakpoints need to have more meaning than: I push F and everything gets oneshot with most good guns, and not even on the head. Weapons that are powerful enough to hold down the trigger and commit mass genocide with accurately, need to have some major drawbacks, not necessarily be removed. This is still fundamentally L4D, just more action/less horror. The formula is not changed up enough to make us all spehce marines that randomly can’t pull ourselves up, can’t swim, and can’t push off a dog even though we can swing a giant chainsaw with enough force to cleave through dozens of people. If you’re telling me we get to transition to space marines and also get to fight more/harder enemies then I’m all ears, but it’s still going to be a boring game without care in balancing.

Anyway, this is just my take. FS is starting to rectify some of their mistakes, and I commend them for that. I just don’t want this to become one, though whether it is or not depends on everyone else’s opinion and not mine. I personally enjoy a challenge. I do not enjoy having 1 clown be able to run down and basically stat-check the map and clear it for everyone else, even if that clown is me. I would, however, enjoy someone running down the map and being so ridiculously skilled that they can pull it off.


Agree, elites blobs are not a treat anymore, easy to stagger easy to kill. Ragers and maulers can’t even reach you (maulers were weak even before patch), crushers and bulwarks are constantly lying on the floor. Only shotgunners are true chads, still dangerous. Same situation with specials. And i personaly don’t like high intensity, despite i play it, i prefer when mobs are more challenging to kill, than it’s fodder spam. We need t6 difficulty or balance changes for t5 asap. Game feels less deep and more arcade now. Even newcomers can faceroll t5 just because of a good gear like bolter with insane combo like pinning fire+shattering impact. I rarely even see people slide now, just rushing through the level.

Its my opinion that the mobs aren’t nearly tanky enough. The common horde trash (groaners and poxwalkers) only have 1/2-2/3s the HP of the most common enemy with a gun (dreg stalker) who becomes a horde entity by high difficulty. Toughness damage bleedthrough should apply to 100% of melee damage, its easy enough to not get hit by those attacks at all. Imagine how disappointing Vermintide 2 would feel to play if your only punishment for getting hit by a Chaos Warrior overhead is that your temporary HP went down. That’s basically toughness.

1 Like

I know where you´re coming from.

While i tend to say that poeple just got better at the game aswell, it´s pretty much what i predicted to happen when FS follows the “buffs please” crowd… and they did to get better reviews i guess.

And there lies the issue…

The game just released and of course not every is balanced perfectly and a lot of poeple just need to get used to the gameplay. But instead of doing so, they kept using the most broken weapons and wanted buffs, buffs, buffs… and that in a state where not even 1% of all players had access to T4 traits / blessings on them.

Now we´re here… a lot stuff got buffed, the broken stuff not nerfed and it´s easier to have access to the big stuff. So atleast if you´ve 1 T4 perk or so on your weapons, you´ll outstat damnation by miles.

We definately need nerfs to keep damnation somewhat interesting, and no… not everyone should be able to clear it without a minimum of skill. Also not pretty much every run should be a success as it is imo. We´re talking about the highest difficulty in a game that wants to challenge us.
We need those nerfs or even some rollbacks when we talk about blessings. Of course a new difficulty would be interesting aswell, but that will take a while, will split the playerbase even more etc…

1 Like


No it is not.
Unless you get killed, taking damage in V2 does not really matter much, because you just temp health yourself up to 100% during the next horde. Temp hp in V2 is like an infinite source of self heal. Temp hp is so strong that it is actually a good idea to purposely take damage sometimes, so that your ult gets recharged faster.

Not at all like Darktide, where you have no self heal unless you play zealot.
And where enemies are much more likely to suddenly hop out behind you.

1 Like

And 100% toughness is like Gromril Armor, only its even better because you aren’t time-gated on activation. Nobody would take THP over this baby mode lol. No amount of THP lets you freely hit trade with enemies that would otherwise 1 hit down you or close to it. Get real.

Taking damage is a lot more punishing than nothing happening.

Ok have it your way. Let’ s see how 95% of the remaining players leave after FS listen to you in regard to “how to make the game better”.

If it means having a game where I can actually take HP damage in Damnation for some other reason than me still being greedy for my revive frame, sure.

“Look at me. Me so good at game. Pls only cater to me.”

Or just don’t defend your bad takes, suit yourself. Having a passive resistance to minor chip damage (THP) is a much better game system than totally ignoring all the supposedly threatening melee enemies (toughness). If you didn’t realize that without me telling you no need to crawl up on the cross and pretend like you had a dog in this fight. Game systems should change for the better on the inputs of people actually capable of exploiting them. Toughness is an exploitable low difficulty no punishment mode and 100% worse a solution than THP.

I think bleedthrough mechanic was a good idea tbh, it’s just was unfinished and poorely implemented. Maybe it should be only for the highest difficulty and applies only from melee elites not from trashmobs. Stronger the elite enemy stronger the bleedtrough. Since we got no friendly fire, there should be some mechanic that force players to be more accurate and aware of their actions and dissions. Oh and it should work with zealot playstyle.

1 Like

That is not what we have though.

You did not suggest to have that instead of toughness.
You suggested to have absolutely no toughness mitigation against melee enemies and to only rely on regular HP against them.
You suggested to remove toughness mitigation for melee attacks without any replacement for it.

Read through what you actually said and think again.

This was honestly something I expected once we got full crafting. Even in this state while most people barely can get something that is near perfect, it is far easier to get something that is mediocre and realize that “yeah maybe heavy sword with headtaker/rampage can be pretty busted”.
On launch and even after the buffs, nearly everyone was saying how bad heavy sword is, now? Barely anyone who plays this game semi regularly can say its outright trash anymore.
Its the same deal with something like powersword, the nerfs matter very little when you can easily quarantee something like rampage/slaughter.

If T5 is to remain how it is currently, I personally see it just getting easier and easier as time progresses and more people get closer to that optimal gear level.
At the very least difficulty 6 should probably be considered but I honestly just want fatshark to actually go bold in the balance department and actually decide what they want from this games balance. It simply makes 0 sense that kantrael for instance can just outclass nearly 90% of the sniping weapons damage/effeciency wise, and still have scope for some reason.

1 Like

So, you basically jusy named a ton of stuff in the game that is enjoyable to use and said,

“The problem is that it doesn’t feel like I’m shredding my own knuckles against a brick wall when I play the game. Nerf all this.”

Edit: It’s okay for OP to feel this way. Just illustrating that there are people with very diverse tastes playing this game.

1 Like

Is there nothing in the OP that you would agree with?
Not even the part about the zealot flamer and this?

Eh, I’m not qualified to comment on Damnation balance or whether OP is correct. I’m just highlighting the amusing tone of the OP from the outside looking in.


I did not misrepresent what you said.
You said this (remove toughness dmg mitigation for melee) and did not suggest to replace it with anything else.

Yes. Of course.
It is absolutely reasonable to come back with these ad hominem attacks in response to me pointing out your inconsistency and your suggestion that would ruin the game for a large majority of the playerbase.


I miss bleed through.
For me the point of playing the tide games is to get better and better until you are good enough that you can make it through a level with only barely getting hit.
Temp hp aswell as thoughness allowes the player to get hit quite frequently.
Im not a fan of that.
At least on high difficulty there should be some kind of bleed through damage in my opinion.