Balance; Some feedback on weapons; Train Mission

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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The Ripper Gun seems to be underperforming damage wise, ammo count quite low as well.
Hopefully this can be looked at. It seems to underperform seriously in comparison to kickback.
Recoil, recoil, recoil, so much recoil, why?

Grenade gauntlet; absolutely awful no idea why anyone would use it, it should be a primary weapon (melee), with its damage buffed way up, now it seems to be only pushing stuff around, without killing literally anything even snipers take 2 hits with the ranged attack… Needs to be buffed seriously.

Gorgonum, suffered a lot due to low ammo count, and eternal reload, which should be faster, it cannot be reloaded on maelstrom making it unusable. Likewise all the variants, really got hit, with the advance blessing, its really bad now, I wonder why anyone would use. The bracing slowdown is really awful, due to how slow and big the ogryn is.

This doubled after the toughness nerfs, I think it would be much more balanced if he was given 25; toughness instead of the 15, that he gets on the 1st third of the tree, coupled with a bit of a buff 5% to toughness damage reduction against shooters. He would be tanky, but not invulnerable.

The shooters, regularly down him in a matter of seconds, even when there is just 1 or 2, like as in get hit, and you are down to half health. Would give at least a bit more reaction time.

The new mission is cool. The time for it especially on auric is way way too short, I get the added pressure, but would still like to just have a bit more time, for it so that its not run and run.
Especially the ogryn is very slow, not great combination for gameplay.

Shield is still meh, with poodle noodle. Heavy hitter, is a bit underperforming with the melee focus, imo, due to the impact shooters have on the big man, not great.

I would really hope to see that bullrush would give a 30% toughness boost at start and plus more for hitting enemies, now you get downed very often before you get to make the charge due to the mechanics. Zealots rush is much better in this regard and he should get a bit of toughness so he can close in combat. Otherwise, he will down during the charge very often.

The suppression 20% on the final node of the tree, really bad. Needs to be combined to something else, rather than just that, its not great.

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It’s a ridiculous suggestion, but I’d like it so much if bull rush deflected bullets. The amount of times I’ve gone down trying to close on gunners/snipers… Until then, well, skill issue :smiling_face_with_tear:

I wouldn’t want to see a toughness up front like the Zealot, keep the ability identity distinct imo. I love how far you can actually move with Bull Rush, if there was a perk that doubled the range I think I would always take it lol.

Can someone weigh in on the specialist sniping ability of the Kickback? I always thought the Ripper was better at long range, what’s the effective range of the Kickback?

Yeah, the suppression node swap in the bottom right hurts. It’s definitely a nerf to melee Ogryn TDR, which I’m always sad to see. Then again I’m quite biased! What I love most is consistently generating toughness so as long as that’s still a main focus I’m all in on that. Less TDR means more opportunities to fill the bar, I guess!

Also, that grenade gauntlet claim is gonna start some shiz :popcorn:

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Dueling sword, knife, revolver, plasma: need nerfs.

The balance is in an abysmal state, and i called it before the update even came out. I have no faith in Fatshark ever doing a proper balance pass, they seem too scared to make significant changes, since there is always an outcry of noobs when nerfs are made.

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i dislike it.
I hate how it can be lost half way due to time limits, i hate the new minigame that takes up 20% of the mission time, and most importantly I HATE the stupid knockback on the boss in the end.

I’d really love it if we as a community agreed to never started it up, so it doesnt mess up quickplay for people.

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We can’t possibly be using the same weapon, that or you’ve got a poor roll on the explosion damage… it deletes most specialists and gunners in a single shot from range (occasionally can’t one-shot dreg gunners because of their absurd healthpool). Wouldn’t turn down a buff but it’s not “absolutely awful” at all.

And of course, in any post talking about balance there’s always the cry of “nerf” by someone if not the OP then someone commenting…

Once again: nerfs are the bastion of those lacking creativity and nerfs in a dev team like Fatsharks hands are heavy rather than fine-tuned and thoughtful. Stop. Asking. For. Nerfs.

Balance is one thing – but there is no PvP… this isn’t a game where balance should be stressed so aggressively.

Bunch of killjoys I swear.

“Someone else is having fun differently from the way I have fun and I don’t like the way they have fun, nuke their kit!”

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dueling sword I agree with, revolver and plasma are fine when stuff like assail + shotgun cleave psyker are in the game.

Problem is the difficult gap between heresy and auric maelstrom, tons of stuff feels absurdly broken in t4 / t5 but feels fine on Maelstrom. V2 had similar issues.

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False. Ogryn only appears slow(or you chose weapons with poor mobility) because your viewpoint is higher off the ground.

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It certainly is bastion of those lacking creativity; but that’s because those lacking creativity can’t fathom how nerfing can create a balanced environment in which everything that was already viable(but overshadowed by the blatantly op stuff) has decent reasons of being used(rather than “play4funlulz”). Brainlessly buffing will end up just like helldivers2 which gained insignificant amount of playercount.

For example it doesn’t matter how many times they buff regular sword, I’m still not using it over dueling 4 or even 5. Especially now that the mediocre heavy sword is made available to other classes.

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The main problem with balance is the blessings either a weapon is dependent on specific ones them to function (shotguns and full bore power sword and power cycler) and all their other blessings suck

Or weapons are strong on their own and their blessings make them insane but still only specific ones where the rest suck and have no actual meaningful use case scenario.

As said how the hell do you balance around weapon modifications that can completely negate a weapon’s downside or make upsides stupidly powerful with varied stats on top. And then a whole heap of damage perks on top of that

Like darktide is in this grey area of
We want to be able to modify our weapons to be as strong as possible (which we recently got pretty much to its fullest extent) and we want the game to still be challenging. It’s conflicting game design of wanting that l4d2 ramp up in difficulty and skill expression and the rpg arms race of making ourselves as jacked as possible.

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This is kinda true. Clubs are slower then most other human weapons in terms of speed (at least those with a mobility stat) and shield is taking alot of stamina to sprint with. And this is not really accounting for people who use ranged weapon with good mobility and talents/abilities from different classes.

Couple this with a larger hit box and are thus more likely to get stuck on things while using dodge, it’ll enhance the appearance of being slower ( although cleavers are really good for mobility).

Ogryns does have, for the most part, the same “starting line” for speed as every other class. If you want delve deeper there are some really good steam guides that’ll give you base stats regarding each class.

It is just mid tier, not good, but neither is it bad. But having it as a projectile based weapon with a maximum distance before the projectile just explodes in the air means that you will have to close the gap to some enemies from time to time.

Together with low AOE damage means that enemies can hide behind one another and making your key target not take damage. Low ammo count in clip and reserve and a clunky reload with a brace action before shooting makes it not feel as smooth as other weapons, but fits right in with other Ogryn weaponry.

Kinda. Cleavers are the only really good mobility weapons for Ogryn, but they’re close to the high mobility weapons from other classes. Although most of the time what I see holding back Ogryns is their inability to move forward and fight at the same time.

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Please stop with this juvenile take. Nerfs are a necessary component of balancing. What we have now with absurd spawn rates and broken audio cues is a direct consequence of too much buffing. The enemies can’t keep up with us even when spammed to a point it destroys the soundscape of the game. You can’t possibly be unable to see this.

Regardless you’re at least going to have to come up with a novel argument from “iT’s A pVe GaMe GuYs” to convince anyone pro nerf cause that’s an old thousand times debunked argument at this point.

Regarding OP’s post you lost me early with “it’s not as good as kickback”. If your initial goalpost is the very top performers I don’t trust your judgement on what is good or bad for pretty obvious reasons.

People in these forums will tell you to play with off meta stuff for a challenge if the game is too easy then the next moment insist that everything is made as strong as meta options.

God forbid one might want to play with a weapon that is more than competent for top difficulty without absolutely crushing everything. No no no buff everything into the stratosphere, if the game ever exerted any kind of genuine threat one might risk actually feeling something while playing it.

Also I’m sorry, but if Ogryn isn’t tanky enough for you to comfortably deal with ranged mobs you are being carried on damnation, let alone Auric. People worked out how to do it fine near release, and nowadays Ogryn is far stronger and the ranged mobs far weaker than they were back then.

Any attempt to even further defang ranged mobs is a request to completely lobotomise the game.

No. No. No. A thousand times no.

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Might give some a different perspective on meta chasing.

Tbh I find fighting less, but more capable enemies where you have to dodge block and parry more suspenseful than “how fast can I click mouse1 on this horde”

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Nice vid, I love the fact that when a horde comes it’s time to hunker down and fight it in an advantageous location. I try to do this anyway because I enjoy it but you don’t really need to as much when you’re maxed out, point taken!

It was my first thought when they changed horde spawns from a timer to progress, is that huzzah we don’t always need to be rushing around and sometimes we can just hang around and fight a horde in a nice choke somewhere :slight_smile:

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just to say my opinion about balance in general:
sometimes weapons aren’t the problem, but are the amount of talents/builds/blessings that make the weapons actually good.

but in a context, where we use weapons at the best efficiency, I can personally say, that I see too way many times people with those specific weapons, and not being good, not even being able to help themselves with those weapons, in certain situation (for example, clutching etc.)

I think, people that know how to play, they make those weapons look very good, because yeah, they are decently good, but just like the rest of other weapons in the end.

for example, many times i managed to solo and res everyone later with weapons that people would think are bad compared to others. (crucis pre update, when it wasn’t buffed, in auric damantion+)

also, If DS would be nerfed in some ways, then it would impact a bit more for psyker where DS isn’t already that much of a good pick for that class, beside mobility.

the game it still challenging, by the moment members of the squad go down and are missing. many players I think are focusing on balance when all components of the squad are alive, which is ok, but without considering about the implications, like when few members are missing etc.

to conclude, and make more clear my opinion:
I think all weapons should be fun and practical to use, therefore putting other underwhelming weapons on par with others that feel normal.

but we gotta also see how many times the enemies themselves of the game got nerfed because people complained too much xD
i remember those days when mutants for example could push you away if they were dropping or climbing up spots etc. same for doggos iirc. or the famous flamers breaking instantly toughness and same for scab bombers.
maybe made the gameplay a bit more forgiving I guess and fair. but i’d like to see more mechanics added, like the one about flamers exploding with the canister which is cool.

also i’d like to answer about this, not to deny, but to my personal experience, i play auric maelstorm, with so many enemies and audio is fine. There could be some technical limitation with audio when too many audio samples are played at once, but not sure if it has any direct relation to buffs and/or nerfs. :thinking: (i get what you mean, but it could be a different reason as well)

it could be also simply some bug due to how they coded the game, and it wouldn’t surprise me since, it is confirmed that certain very specific points of certain maps have weird spots where specials are silent, for example poxbursters not emitting sounds because sound gets muffled. (i will report these spots soon cause i know where they are) one in particular in vigil oblivium map

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Karking THANK YOU. Also, Fatshark is definitely not heavy handed with nerfs (on the rare occasion they do nerf)

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Fatshark when basic knifes are significantly better than high tech futuristic fantasy power weapons

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They can be, plenty of examples over all the Tide games but it’s exaggerated I agree. I think it’s the pace of balance adjustments that get people worried. If something is adjusted it often isn’t touched again for quite a while, so if they adjust incorrectly we’re usually stuck with that for a long time.

And I am absolutely sympathetic with that concern, but I don’t find it a compelling reason to avoid nerfs altogether.

If only they had some successful template they could use for wide spread balance adjustments they could copy in the future. Some kind of beta branch with a bunch of balance adjustments for the community to try and give feedback on. A big balance beta, if you will :thinking: If only they had successfully tried something like this in the past they could use and adapt. Ah well fanciful stuff really.

It’s not even sounds not playing sometimes, it’s the sheer quantity of noises making it hard to hear the important ones. My experience with the Tide games is the more they go for hyper density the funkier the game gets.

The current way the game tries to create difficulty is… unsatisfying and lacking nuance is my point, and that is a direct consequence of how powerful the player characters have gotten. It kneecaps the design space for creating difficult scenarios.

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Against which enemy at what range and which mk?

Not going to say there’s nothing that can’t be improved about ogryn (it’s heavy stubber fire delay).

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“Yes”

but what i’m about to tell you pal has to remain ogryn-secret, yes?

trinket-finger-pinky promise.

imagine consignment yard final train and scaffold in the far back where snipers spawn and not always get down.

not matter the distance, even before dropping down for the event, 2 shots, snipers gone.

now for a serious explanaition: its not that the ripper doesnt to it almost the same way, ripper 5 anyways, people aint used to when to brace and when not to.

single burst is doing damage to the sniper but to little pellets hit to finish him in on go.

i guess people see this burst as “multiple shots not doing the same”

braced when getting snipers on their asses, burst when up close.

not as ammo efficient as the kickback, true, but both weapons “snipe”.

with the ripper i consider far distance burst shots rather like a “whip” than a “spear”, if that makes sense.

dunno, nights been short and last food’s rebelling so :nauseated_face:

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It’s not just speed, ogryn has high base stamina so there’s a ton of stamina to run with(or at least that’s how it appears to be, assuming sprint cost is the same/depending on weapon), and even without stamina ogryn is still just behind zealot in base sprint speed.