The PR would be bad, but not addressing those weapons is worse. The game doesn’t throw enough enemies to justify how strong those two weapons alone are while giving the rest of the team something to do.
PS and Flamer can be nerfed once and that’s it, maybe a bit lighter nerf and see if it needs one more to avoid over nerf. What I was talking about was that reducing overall player power every 2 weeks is a super bad idea.
I like how much people jump on the PS and flamer topics without thinking for just 1 second…
I think you interpret it a bit too much.
FS should´ve the data to get it done within 2 patches. Nerf it once, then rebalance if needed, maybe even a third time but that´s it. The 1-2% was just an example so.
And in case of Flamer / PS yes… they said something will be done next patch. But what exactly? Even if they have a solution now, there should´ve been atleast a hit on the basestats like 3 months ago to keep the stuff more balanced until a real solution appears.
I’m personally not that bothered by the “base” difference in weapons. It’s usually a breakpoint thing when a certain white weapon overperforms another white weapon (or case of very different overall blessing strength on the weapon like with plasma)
It was your idea of slow gradual change. I think it’s a terrible idea. Category rebalances I find fine tho (overall cleave/hitmass rebalance, removal of all infinity cleave blessings, removing dodge-slide, ammo rebalance…) all in their own patch to make it more feasible I guess.
I hope they don’t take them to the level you want to see them since it would put them under everything else.
To be a bit less confrontational, my previous point could also be said here. If weapon overperforms fine nerf it, but that doesn’t solve any of your (or my) problems, is it?
PS for example needs to be the high-damage cleaving weapon with low mobility to have a point. You can reduce the damage and mobility only so much before it becomes redundant compared to the other weapon choices. Probably the main target would be stagger nerf on elites and a slowdown on activation as the new variant has.
To get a proper balance the categories/gameplay elements to have to be rebalanced instead of playing wack-a-mole with the current best weapon (the worst kind of balancing direction).
My issue with this personally is that there will always be people who are not satisfied with the level of difficulty. Make it harder and, again, someone will come forward and say its still not hard enough. Out of respect to the community and to the developers there needs to be a limit.
I played a match today with two ogryns, one with Achyles and one with Gorg. Plus my dragon breath shotgun Preacher and I believe a vet with a bolter or a las.
It was a hi-five mission and the torrent of fire we spat out just trivialised the whole game. We were just going from ammo crate to ammo crate, we had 3 on the map? It was just silly.
The best range weapons themselves are “mostly” fine in terms of power, but ammo drops are just too plentiful.
I don’t think the game fails to deliver, when I look at the skill level of most people I play damnation with in realtion to the difficulty provided.
By your logic VT2 failed as a game because it was not difficult enough for people like Core who played difficulties that were viable for maybe a literal handful of the playerbase.
You can make the argument that maybe all special conditions should be available at all times in high intensity or something, but wanting a complete rebalance everytime people have gotten good better at the game is ridiculous.
I am one of those people who wants Hi-int STG all the time and I completely agree with this statement.
Not interested, I play Darktide because its Warhammer 40K… If I wanted to play VT2 I’d play VT2. That means ranged combat as it’s 40K. Those systems are straight out of the game itself.
Secondly Kiting has no place anywhere near a Warhammer 40K game. In fact Dodging really doesn’t either. I just accept it since it is a leftover from VT. But in reality 40K is two enemies charging straight at each other while shooting. Its pure, brutal force on force. While I undrstand making melee foes harder to bring down with Ranged.
The reality is…
Waves of cannon fodder are wiped out in a heartbeat. None of this… “dodge around with a dagger or axe” stuff. In 40K waves of fodder are intended to be wiped out with Flamers and Grenades and Huge Voidballs and plasma weapons. Or gunned down in waves with heavy bolters.
You’ve got the wrong idea of what Warhammer 40K really is. And it is NOT Vermintide 2. You need to reorient your thinking.
I have no problems with fixed spawns and I do run into things like that normally. But usually its like 3 Bulworks, and 6 Ragers with the 40 Gunners and Sniper. Or 4-6 Reapers in place of the Ragers.
That said you DID bring up ONE point that does have merit.
In Warhammer 40k The big boy melees like your Crushers or Bulworks, or Maulers or Ragers are much more resistent to Ranged weapons as a whole. It takes full squads of trained fire to bring them down. Not just a few well placed shots by one individual.
The only way those are taken down is usually with an Assault Squad or Powered weapons or Chain Weapons, so you literally have to melee them to take them down or they wipe out your squads of shooters in a heartbeat.
So… the Armored or Heavy Elite melees… do need to be seriously strengthened against ranged weapons.
Yeah well i was commenting on the PS and Flamer because you were talking about the PS and Flamer. Those were the words you used and I responded
So? Hooray for hypotheticals that aren’t happening. There, I thought about that useless take for a second.
You quoted something entirely different, that had nothing to do with ps or the flamer at all. It was about nerfing all the currently best weapon one after another.
I’m sorry I was talking with someone who came up with it as an example that would be good.
Maybe look into the conversation that’s going on before commenting next time? I still find it funny how easy people jump on the nerf flamer/PS train when the conversation is about something very different.
This is actually nonsense, because we still talk about a game with multiple difficulties. I don´t get what´s so hard to understand it. I don´t mind if the game is correct in its lore on malice, maybe even somewhat heresy -difficulties. But it shouldn´t be that exeggerated on the highest difficulty available, just to make it easy to play and pretty much everything else not even worth to play.
You completely exeggerate here. V2 is harder in its core for different reasons. Poeple will jump with full reds in cata and still fail. Here we´re able to clear “the cata-level” with trash-weapons and even did it before blessings have become that strong. And it doesn´t matter if you played with premades or randoms, it happened and more runs are a success than fails in a comparison.
Noone asked for that aswell, it´s just that the current base-game difficulties get outscaled. Watching dozens of poeple fail at basics but having the damnation-frame is a joke. The most didn´t even got better, all the recent buffs just made the game easier.
And we´re also still no talking about meta-gear with all the breakpoints, because of the RNG involved.
There are a bunch of things to take into account, so please stop with such claims, they make no sense.
Noone is asking for something impossible. But we´ve something to compare to since it´s not Fatsharks first game in the tide-series. V2 has been more difficult to play and needed more attention. Those who facerolled the game jumped on modded realms anyway.
As been said above, DT was easier to beat since release and all the recent buffs made stuff even easier and we still don´t have the max gear poeple run in V2 but still fail rarely on legend and pretty often on cata.
Dunno where you get that from so…
I don´t want to make stuff useless, i want them to shine in their niche but with respectful drawbacks.
- Low mobility is something players will get used to.
- Low ammo-count is irrelevant if you can carry the whole team out of every situation and ammo is everywhere anyway.
- Long reload-times doesn´t matter aswell if the room is cleared.
- etc…
You can disagree ofc, but that´s how it is. And that´s why i find it stupid to try to rebalance stuff around blessings, which actually make the most weapons super strong.
Keep the basestats somewhat in line, prepare different weapons for different circumstances but with huge drawbacks. On top bring utility with blessings, so each player can decide how to tweak a weapon to deal with such drawbacks.
It´s easier to balance and offers more variety to the player than “pick slaughterer”, “pick brutal momentum”, whatever…
And just back to the weapons… if a PS is still the best melee weapon, let it be, i don´t mind. But imo it´s just exeggerated in stats. Also a flamer should still be the option to clear hordes. But why is it 3 times stronger than a purgestaff? And why should it kill elites or bosses in seconds? Less range, capped DoT, maybe heat-management on top… fixed. It´s not like we already had flamers in V2, which have been way more balanced so…
No what I told you is not “nonsense”.
That is Warhammer 40K. And the things you’re talking about are trying to make it into something it is not.
The only thing you’ve brought up that has any merit is about the Heavy Melee enemies being more resistent to ranged weapons. Everything else is normal for any Warhammer 40K game. And that includes large packs of cannon fodder wiped out in a hearbeat by ranged weapons.
And changing that means you’re no longer playing Warhammer 40k, You’re playing a different game entirely.
Warhammer 40K isn’t a finesse game at all, its pure brute force on force.
I mean our conversation and your ideas were overall nerfs about the player’s power level. I understand we want balance, but nerfing them into a state where they are balanced in the current environment still would leave them more powerful than you like (at least that’s what I got from your previous posts).
That’s kinda condescending…
Don’t you think that high mobility is beneficial? Don’t you think that plasma would be way more powerful with a shorter reload/vent time? Did you miss that base ammo count also means less ammo on pickup?
Bolter for example becomes way more effective with the reload talents Vet has and the instant reload ult. Plasma is heavily held back by the ammo supply even if you get a lot of pickups. DS and knife were way better than FS on psyker before the recent patch mainly because of the increased mobility.
I think flamer does need some damage nerf, but if it would be the level of VT2 flamer it would see no use. Even purge is like 10x stronger than VT2 flamer.
Well how am I supposed to interpret the following then?
Please don’t tell me you are one of those nutjobs who think Damnation is somehow the same as champion/legend.
Take classes that can use shotgun and take that…
You will see things different.
Problem to restrain ammo, is that it impact badly a veteran, while the zealots have no problem from that (except the ones that think flamer is the main weapon of the zealot).
I would say that several weapons need a nerf: flamer, boltgun and PS
Several need adjustments: MG XII toward MG IV and MG Ia (something is really wrong in the design here)
Several need a buff: I think here at revolver (ammo buff and weak spot damages) and shotgun (ammo buff only)
About Ogryn:
All weapons are too powerful considering the way Ogryns work. You can have the strongest health, and the best toughness regen. Ok, the hit box is large compared to others. But playing with the Ogryn is… everything is easier with it.
The Ogryns need to have weapons that do less damages than the weapons of the other classes.
Probably, more than what I say, a special condition like similar to cata of VT2 should exist. A damnation++.
The bad part about this is that good ogryns do way too much, and the usual bunch I see do more harm than good for the team.
Probably the same with Zealot, where the good players are indestructible killing machines with way too much survivability, while on the forum there is a constant stream of “nerf shooters” posts from zealot mains.
we dont really need nerfs to much except for the flamer. the best thing fatshark can do is just buff the game. more conditions that add difficulty, remove the low intensity trash from the game preferably. combine 3/4/5/6 conditions together, 2 is not enough, and we will have a good challenge.
Nerfs aren’t ever too popular - people will always advocate for buffs instead - but there’s a logical conclusion to non-stop buffs which is that the total difficulty gets lower and lower and lower.
Right now my current bugbear is that the balance between horde clearing melee and non-horde clearing melee is too vast. There’s a few weapons that utterly trivialise hordes that will go nameless here, and often the next tier down (utility weapons) are so far below that they plain can’t. There seems to be very little middle ground of balance between the best and the next.
I’d love to see a very minor readjustment of the top tier horde clearing weapons so that a greater skill element is required (and yet ensuring they remain the best at their job) while even more importantly buffing those ‘utility’ weapons to give better performance and creating some viable alternatives.
Let me start by saying please buff the horde clear of Shovel for Ogryns <3
So you’re saying this isn’t entirely lore-accurate? 
