Customer compensation and goodwill

Since the other topic was closed and thus there was no way to reply to @Fatshark_Hedge 's replies, I will simply have to make a new thread.

Now, I don’t want to argue semantics, but it would be fair to say that the game was advertised as launching with cosmetics, which while technically true, there were only one per career, and the droprate for them was approx 0%. That 0% number is not hyperbole, by the way. The current cosmetics that launched with 1.1 are by and large the same ones showed in marketing matieral for VT2, and many largerly imported wholesale from VT1.

It doesn’t take a lot of mental gymnastics to realize that the cosmetics in 1.1 were intended to be in the game for launch, but didn’t make it due to time constraints. Especially since they were shown off in pre-release marketing material. (The same goes for mod support, dedi servers and more, that simply didn’t make it for launch and are still missing in functional form from the game.)

Now, here comes the larger issue. The change in droprate for cosmetics was obviously needed, as it was functionally zero. However, the cosmetics dropped into the game with the changed droprate, are cosmetics that should have been in the game since launch, and were advertised. Current droprate seems to be one cosmetic per 30-60 chests on average, which is still a lot of hours per cosmetic drop.

It is not simply the change in droprate that makes it fair to compensate players for previous hours grinded, it’s the fact that the content was simply missing previously, and was supposed to already be in the game. I would find it very difficult to believe that @Fatshark_Hedge would be able look me straight in the eyes and tell me the 1.1 cosemtics were never, at any point, intended to be included on release/straight after release.

All of the above is issue one.
Issue two is the fact that the release of the game has been a technical nightmare, with bugs upon bugs upon bugs, missing features, non-working talents and so much more. Many of us have distinctly had the feeling of playing an early-access game, and our feedback has indeed been invaluable to FS. It was a player who discovered the enormous blunder that led to the 1.05 patch, just to name one of many, many bugs and issues reported by players. It is clear that QA at FS is severely limited, and for better or worse they have to rely on their customers to catch and report bugs, both of a technical nature and of game features not working as intended.

You put all of this together, and you have a significant portion of players that have put hundreds of hours into the game, that are starting to feel like they are getting the short end of the stick, and being shafted. The previous quotes from @Fatshark_Hedge is the first time anyone from FS has aknowledged the rocky release even a little bit. I understand he is very busy, but if he doesn’t have the time, they need to employ a pure community manager that does.

Me personally put around 480 hours into this game before 1.1 dropped with more cosmetics and increased droprates. Now, obviously I’m not saying those 480 hours are wasted because I had fun with the game and played what was available. From a grinding standpoint however, those hours are wasted, especially as even the new droprate demands many, many hours of grind per cosmetic.

Essentially the cosmetic grind before 1.1 introduced cosmetics that ought to have been there from launch, was a wasted effort, and if anyone from FS had told us, no one would have opened a single chest before 1.1 dropped. They must have known they were introducing cosmetics later than planned, and they must have known droprates would have to change.

Combined with the very, very rocky early-access like launch of the game, it is not whiny or entitled or anything even remotely outlandish or absurd about expecting FS to wish to compensate or create some goodwill among their customers, customers they even rely upon to bugfix and improve their game.

They have sold more units than they could have expected, and the compenstion they would give their customers would cost them nothing more than a few manhours. It’s an almost unheard of situation for a company, to be able to restore goodwill among discontented customers without giving away product, without doing discounts, but merely by using a few manhours to dole out a little digital content that already exists.

To have had such a rocky launch with huge techincal issues, big problems with the game and gameplay, and the very late arrival of advertised content, @Fatshark_Hedge reply that they simply don’t want to do anything at all to restore goodwill among the customers that have used their product the most, is like reading the ABC of how to destroy all future goodwill and purchases from your customers.

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  • (this was supposed to be a pluss. <<)

Credit where credit is due, the content update was great.

It should’ve been in the game from launch, and as mentioned it wasn’t likely due to time constraints.
Until this topic is touched by FS, be the response good or bad, I’ll be hesitant to support any upcoming DLC

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A lot of free to play games will even handout some free currency when servers go down. It probably wouldn’t be a terrible thing if Fatshark did something similar with commendation chests here and there in small amounts if it is just a simple SQL update statement. I don’t expect a refund on past chest but a few freebies would not hurt my feelings. A few for people that have played since X date, for servers being down on X date, or whatever. One would hope it would help community moral. It seems to help in other games.

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Yes my only beef with the content update is that it’s a stretch to call it content but overall it’s a welcome addition.

I’m in the same boat re future support to FS.

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I wonder how many downvotes can one hit if they post something like this on reddit.

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I’m not a redditor so I don’t know the general mindset of the VT2 reddit community hivemind - do you mean my post, or what Hedge posted as a reply to @Avar and more?

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Actually now that I think of it, I would love to experiment with both, but originally I meant your post of course.

There is not doubt in what will happen to your post, but I am really curious now how will people react to FS one. But I think the one from 1.1 patchnotes would be even better.

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Yeah I’m finding myself in a strange place.

On the one hand I enjoy playing the game (despite the myriad bugs and issues), and would like to have more friends to play with.

On the other hand, FS approach to their customers, lack of feedback, handling of balancing, insane RNG skinnerbox and more is starting to make me feel like I should warn people to never buy FS products. It’s an absurd situation to be in.

I’m also not sure at all that I would pay for any DLC at this point.

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Not saying anything about Fatshark one way or the other but I can say for me the content update (A.K.A. the real “Ver. 1.00”) was a bit too late. I feel pretty much burnt out because I made the mistake of trying to get some of this mythical end-game stuff before it landed.

Gonna’ try to jump in some more this weekend but after seeing all the back end error threads I’m not expecting too much other than trying to enjoy the game-play.

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Just giving us SOMETHING back for the abysmal state that the game is kind of still in, would restore my faith alot. Maybe that would be one random cosmetic for ur highest lvl characters ? or like 50 Legend / commendation chests? ANYTHING would be nice, i mean, farming skippergate for 100 hours and getting 1 red and 1 cosmetic, kinda pisses people off…

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It was the 4th month after Vermintide 2 lauch. I was still hoarding chests…

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I’m really glad I leveled my characters to 30 and completed all the missions on legendary before this update hit, now I get to be screwed forever because FS refuses to acknowledge that they boned their early players.

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FS really needs to move more people to PR department. There’s no way for a single person - @Fatshark_Hedge - to handle this all, and unfortunately, it shows.

I think that FS has underestimated this quite a lot. So, imo, I’d suggest moving more people to PR department (ASAP) even if it means delaying other stuff. Good PR is the main building block for a successful bussiness, and damn guys, you really need it right now.

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And if they had tracked the stats from a far earlier point, they would have essentially favored the old players over new ones, as we would’ve gotten practically everything for free, right after the update.

I already opened 26 Comm chests after logging in the night of the update, without actually playing anything. Now I still have things to do in the game, and having done those before in no way invalidates the past or the future. I would’ve kept playing anyway even if the update didn’t happen, and I wouldn’t have played more if those things had been tracked beforehand.

I’m quite happy they focused on a lot of balance and combat mechanics before most other new additions and features. This game has way to much depth to ignore those things. There’s so much depth- that you can clearly see from doing a single mission, that it’s easy to understand why it might take them longer than an instant to produce big features. You can also see that they’re making progress in bringing out features they’ve promised. The most recent update added hundreds of hours of gameplay and made the game feel like it somehow had an even greater level of depth. The base game itself is worth the wait for more.

Having gotten 600-700 hours of gameplay out of something before most of it’s features were added is fantastic. I’ve even bought another copy for my friend because I know they’ll enjoy the grindy and intense gameplay too.

It didn’t. It didn’t add a single minute of gameplay. If you mean it added more reasons to grind the exact same maps as before, then sure they added hundreds of hours of grind to the same content as before.

Claiming they added gameplay seems really far-fetched.

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So you don’t have to play the game to complete the challenges? Interesting.

So I could make a game with a 20 minute loop, then add a cosmetic that required grinding that 20 minute loop for 1000 hours, I could claim the game had 1000 hours of gameplay added?

Please, you’re reaching here, and you know it.

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I’m more bothered by my characters being 30 and thus killing my commendation income. I’m fine with some new challenges being added to keep my interest, but being told to just play through the maps again because the game didn’t track that I did it the first time despite showing that they track it by the mission select borders also rubs me the wrong way.

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Adding gameplay is not adding gameplay. I think I understand now.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu