Feedback regarding latest DLC as well as general game

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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First of all I want to start by saying I love this franchise. Ever since discovering the first vermintide (henceforth known as vt1) and your DLC policies there I liked you fatshark and so I happily paid for the game and for the dlcs which I thought were fair priced for their content. I put nearly 350 hours into vt1 and I got there late, when all the DLC had been released. When vermintide 2 (henceforth known as vt2) was announced I was stoked! The promise of a better loot system was tantalizing to say the least.

But you failed me along the way after vt2. First off, I feel as if you did not deliver your promise of a better loot system in vt2. The only thing that is actually better is the chest system; being able to decide who opens the chest and gets the loot. Reroling for properties and traits over and over to get what you want is not fun, I actaully feel like the system in vt1 was better, at least you had the choice to improve on properties, if you failed nothing happened, but if you succeeded your % increased, if only by 0.1%. In vt2 you have to reroll the entire property meaning if you want higher % on that property you have to roll the dice to not even roll that property! This is not better, this is worse.

Moving on to red duplicates, they did not exist in vt1, one could argue they should of since when you found them all there was no way to get duplicates besides the quest & contracts board. But having them present since release in vt2 caused a lot of harm for the playerbase and I would argue, for you as developers. The last few days the reds I’ve found are 1 weapon and 5 charms. Overall I have found three times as many dupes as non dupes most of which have of course been necklaces, charms and trinkets. Again, not better than vt1 but worse. When you released your duplicate fix I was excited. Yes! Finally fatshark is listening! But you failed me again when you did not include the illusion. 5 real reds which are duplicates being melted down into dust should equate into one red with an illusion. I found 5 reds, just not the ones I wanted and you can’t even reward me with one real one with an illusion? The price of 5 reds for 1 of your choice is fair since you get to pick but only if it comes with an illusion. I feel the lack of illusion is your way of trying to sell your bögenhafen DLC, I do not like this at all.

Moving on to the latest DLC. I loved vt1 I really did and a part of me wants to return there with vt2 graphics and subclasses etcetera but I do not want to pay for it. Why? Not because I’m cheap. I spend a large amount of money on games every year often buying things I end up regretting because I am bored and wanted to waste some time. Lately however I have decided to start valuing things more. If I am expected to pay 8 euros for 3 maps when the base game had (correct me if I’m wrong) 13 base maps + 8 dlc maps totalling 21 maps. That’s 21 maps, expecting 3 per pack total of 7 packs for 8 euros each. 56 euros for reskinned maps? I’m sorry but remastering maps you already own even if you throw in one extra compared to bögenhafen is not the same worth as 2 entirely new maps, it just isn’t. I would have preferred 2 entirely new maps for that cost. I rather have original content and let my nostalgia suffer than to be fed overpriced nostalgia.

I really hope you guys can take some of this feedback to heart I would hate to stop supporting you as a company. I love your game and will continue to play it with the content I already own. Heck, I even bought collectors edition for an extra 15 euros totaling at 40 even though I wanted nothing from it just to say thank you and because your game is worth more than 25 euros. But if you expect me to pay any more I expect to see some changes from you showing that not only do you value my time as a player (stop feeding me dupes and expect me to play 100 missions for one hat) but also provide me with content that is worth its asking price. I am happy to pay 10 euros, 20 euros or 30 euros, as long as the content is there. It’s not about the price, it’s about the price to content ratio.

(added after haxorzists reply)

One last point I support your recent choice to make it so DLC missions are out of quickplay unless one person in the lobby owns them. It’s how it was in vt1 and it does add more value to the DLC. I was frankly against buying bögenhafen for just purple glow weapons and cosmetics. And while I’m at this topic, you messed up that cosmetic part. Making it so you can find cosmetics for characters that you did not open the chest on is just another point to drive home on how you did not improve the loot system, you are very inconsistent in this regard. I would say overall the loot system did get some improvements but you failed to keep it consistent and also worsened it in some parts (property/trait reroll as well as cosmetics not being tied to chest opener as well as red duplicates.

And so what are my suggestions/wishes?

  1. Crafted reds should come with an illusion there’s no debate here and please don’t try to give us some system where we RNG red illusions or have to turn in x amount of x to random an illusion.
  2. Cosmetics should only be given to the character that opens the chest
  3. Add an option to try and increase property % without rerolling both properties like in vt1.
  4. Make it so you can’t roll the same property combination or same trait twice in a row.
  5. Please reduce the 100 missions per career for one hat, which actually totals to 1500(!) missions.
  6. A lot of cosmetics are just recolors and very lackluster, a lot of red illusions barely have any noticeable glow at all (kerilian bows for instance and I’m sure there’s more) please step it up, we know you have talented artists.

Despite what you may think I don’t believe that RNG MMO grind mechanics is keeping your playerbase around so please stop with it.

Thanks for reading

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Very well summarized

16 + 11
But there were free dlc back then like Waylaid and Trials.

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Oh right, one more DLC death on the reik and final waylaid map that’s 14+10 and then I guess the two last stand maps? 16+10, and of course trials of the foolhardy so technically 17+10.

Also I updated my OP with another feedback topic and my list of suggestions.

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Exactly just one of the last stand maps is a dlc.

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OP you realise ppl cant be joined to DLC missions through quick play anymore ?

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Yes I do, I actually addressed it as my last point.

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Yes you are correct…

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So you dont mind solo ppl playing through Quick Play will never get to DLC map anymore unless they join a friend(with DLC) first. Bcs that seems like a playerbase killer to me.

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If you don’t own the DLC and you quickplay then no you won’t see DLC maps. Why should you? You did not pay for them. It is already generous enough with this change.

As for splitting playerbase, vt1 was the same and I never had any problems finding a group. Perhaps in really low populated areas you might have more issues than before and that sucks but you can’t expect fatshark to give out maps for free for just that reason.

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I already have a problem finding a games bcs it wont let me join ppl who ownes new DLC. btw EU is not low populated area and i own first DLC (never had a problem with ppl without DLC joining to my game…). This is just pathetic greediness at its best.

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I never have issues finding games when searching for quickplay on EU. But I only play legend don’t know what it’s like at any other difficulty. And I don’t think it’s greed from their part. I bet a lot of people weren’t buying böghenhafen because the maps were already included in the quickplay pool. I was one of them like I stated.

Anyway I’m sure there are other discussions regarding this topic as it feels like a very contentious issue reading the steam forum. I would appreciate my thread not becoming solely about this topic.

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I too don’t have a problem finding games but in V1 I did have problems to play a dlc map while owning it because nobody would ever join you. You had to play a match first an then host with the established party.
That’s unnecessary tedious I would like to see people being able to join my hosted game because I payed for it and I don’t care that they didn’t.

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I understand that’s how you feel and I personally don’t mind if someone can join my QP hosted game when I’m the host of the owned DLC. However, I am certain that it’s true that people don’t buy map packs if the maps are already in the pool. Everyone I know expressed this feeling when bögenhafen came out. It was like “why buy it, just for purple weapons and cosmetics? no thanks”

I don’t expect fatshark to change their ways now that they announced this change but a nice middle ground could be that non-dlc owners can never quickplay host a dlc map, and they can only join dlc maps in quick play if there is no other slot available in any other lobby in that region.

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Hadge just explained that the matchaking was changed fundamentally and this removes a lot of my concerns about this.

It is now true for quickplay that the map is only selected when all players are ready in the bridge.
So if you join someone still in keep your DLCs will be considered.
Previously the map was already selected as soon as qp was hosted.

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Well the thing is as people we’re shortsighted and egotistical.
We were pissed that people had access to this content because we feel entitled and annoyed that others get to “leech” off of the content that we paid for.

I’d say that with a more objective mindset you can see that people have this opinion because the DLC they paid for was sub-optimal.
If FS had released the maps as free content for everyone, and then made a 10$ package that included:

  • A full on “glowing runes to whatever colour you want” system, as well as the 15 “new” cosmetics, the other 69 being recolours and the majority (haven’t counted the exact number) of the 15 “new” cosmetics just being rehashes of existing cosmetics with either copied, stripped or transferred components.
    There are a few good ones in there. About 7% of these 84 “new” cosmetics are pretty good, even if most of them are mostly copy paste with some added doodads.

  • A dlc pack for every character (5 total), including the above stuff, but restricted to the one character at a reasonable cost (like 2-4 dollars per pack.)

  • that’s still a 25-50% saving on the buy everything, and that “save 25-50%” rings really well in consumer ears.

This would create a lot more goodwill in the community. For the more casual players that don’t have time to put in the effort to max out every character, or the people who simply “main” or have a favourite, they have a cheaper option. For the rest there’s the big pack, which they feel good about buying because they save 50%.
Another benefit to this model is that there’s not the same point of reference. VT2 started out at 30$. That included 5 characters, 15 careers, 50+ weapons and 150+ illusions (skins), 13 maps, x cosmetics and so on.
People will inevitably compare the DLC price to the starting point. Bogushafen had 2 maps, 84 what was marketed as “new” cosmetics (which the consumers disagreed with), and some 50 odd purple rune skins. For a third of the price of the original game, and especially considering most was made from existing assets, with very little work involved to make them - people were pissed and needed to justify their purchase to themselves.
With the DLC including a completely new “recolour runes” feature you can’t match that against the value of the original package sold, hence less need to justify your purchase as a consumer, especially if you find it a little lackluster post-purchase.

I explained a little bit more along these lines in another post, specifically regarding how players are content and splitting the community, even a little is a bad business practice:

Summary
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I don’t understand why everyone is not getting this, but that’s not how it works. If you join a quick play match that is still in the keep, and at least one of those players has the dlc, it’s in the rotation. If you don’t bail every quick Play and start fresh for the next one, you can keep on being in their lobby and have another chance for it. You don’t have to join a friend.

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It just means that the first run that the non-owner joins after they hit the QP button won’t be a DLC map. If they stay in the party after that run and someone else in the group owns the DLC, the next run can be a DLC map.

Edit: Whoops, this has been responded to a bunch of times already…

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You’re right. I personally didn’t feel that the RGB change in glow and some cosmetics which you can barely tell are different was worth my money. I only have the DLC because someone else bought it for me. However if the maps had not been included in the rotation for free I would of been more inclined to buy the DLC.

I do agree with your point regarding cosmetic quality. Fatshark has some amazing artists but the quality of red illusions is drastically different between weapons, it’s actually quite sad how poor some red illusions are. I was not impressed by their purple glow rgb change (how much effort was that really) or their barely different cosmetics that weren’t even character specific when you opened them.

Fatshark has dropped a lot of balls and it’s sad because it’s that last 10% that would make this game truly great but they just don’t seem to get it.

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Which means to us who got the item in drop. I’m won’t be anything special since you can craft the item and get the illusion aswell .

No thx. Let it stay so that the only way to get glowing illusions is through drop. Otherwise it would just ruin the entire value of it.

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You have to sacrifice 5 others that dropped in order to get it.
Get it?
I actually do not like glows at all but arguments not based on logic are even worse.

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