The problem is you can’t easily really learn CoD’s cliff. The spawns are so inconsistent you either have to be prepared for the worst case scenario say for example Gas Rat, BS and two elite packs while the fodder is still up with you. EL’s end event is always consistent, same with Halescourge, you know where you’ve gotta go and be ready to prepared during the cooldown on the boss. There’s no real consistency like that with CoD’s end event and it makes it hard to justify doing the event on a bare minimum of 20 times if you want all the legend skins/rewards for your careers.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a good chunk of players who gave up on getting their legend skins purely do to that end event after the cheese was patched
can’t say I’ve ever found the finale to be that extreme, even on losses it was like…mostly people just getting split up and rekt from running around like headless chickens
Or people hard commit to staying in the circle and die when overwhelmed instead of just jumping out when it gets too heavy
Spawns should probably be made more consistent but I’d like to see QoL changes first and see what that does for the finale. Not getting blinded would go a long way to helping teams stay coherent.
QP Legend is usually a smooth run with a chaotic wipe at the end like @Incandescent says, so I usually drop and even with my premade we restart when it comes up. It’s got to the point there is a very very high “F*CK IT” factor with this map.
I don’t think you can blame CoD for that one. I find it hard to hear all kinds of specials in that finale, but I’m pretty sure they all spawn quite far away.
I understand the frustration though, if you can’t hear the special approach the circle, and (e.g.) a packmaster climbs up behind you and decide to insta-hook.
I agree with you, also, even if i feel like enchanter’s lair is ok-ish on legend, the fact remains the map (like skippergate) begins with a cliff. CoD doesn’t.
I’m not sure if early cliffs are a designer’s choice, but it certainly is something I appreciate
About Convocation itself, when comparing the event to the other maps’, we should remember it has the. single. worse terrain in vermintide. I think that deserves a mention.
What I absolutely loathe about it - a trait it shares with skippergate - is that the event has a very bad feedback, due to neverending spawns, where rescuing players easily becomes a tactical mistake. The ideal (I want to say only) way to do both events is a perfect execution. Deviate from that and you will pay. That is not good design.
Skittergate…i i think its way more forgiving than Enchanters lair or even CoD, you arent toast because one guy went down in a corner and enemies have started to “leak” from there for the next minute or so.
Not on legend, but on cata it feels exactly like that. One player downs in a corner, another has to forgo its position and soon rasknitt it’s not staggered and it’s spawning stuff nonstop. Plus, its attacks interrupt resses.
On legend it’s ok, on cata it’s the worst for me. At least with supreme clutching abilities, you have hope in convo. We once spent 21 minutes fighting rasknitt alone. It didn’t end well.
Regardless all three maps suffer, to some degree, from the same problem: unpredictable spawns.
While Lair is arguably the hardest, the spawns aren’t its biggest problem, but crazy CW waves easily spell doom there. Its main problem, imo, due to the berserker armor, it’s that it’s hard to complete it without adequate weapons/careers.
Convo has the worst terrain and the most erratic spawns. Mostly, imo, they should stop (temporarily) spawining once nobody is up to stop the ritual, so you get a chance to regroup/retry.
Rasknitt has the silliest design, again imo, requiring you to split up to stop it casting/spawning. As a consequence if somebody dies there, it’s a trip downhill. I don’t like the design there, as it’s the opposite gameplay compared to the rest of the game, but if it stays like that, again, spawns should stop (or reach a cap) so you can ress and return to the fight.
Hm, the only time i´ve ever struggled there is when the spawns go wild and monks&stormvermin come pouring in, that or when the team cant kill deathrattler and he ends up gunning us up.
If its just rasknitt and a small amount of monks/stormvermin then i´ve seen plenty of teams recover with just 2 people, sometimes even 1 if said person had a dash to assist the revives&dodge magic bolts.
Well no accounting for individual experience i suppose.
On legend that part is easy enough, on cata it happens to me almost every single time.
Unless someone staggers rasknitt the spawns go wild, as you so aptly said. The only way to keep it a small amount is to stagger him. As long as that fails it’s a trip downhill. It’s that type of positive feedback (positive for the skaven) that kills that map and convo.
Convo is arguably worse, but at least the way you are supposed to play it is standing together and not splitting up.
…To be honest i never noticed, or rather i´ve had cases where both monks and stormvermin come pouring in while rasknit is in the middle of his teleportations around the area.
Then i just leave him there while clearing them out before proceeding to bash him up again.
The part i find the most dismal about convo is that the ideal strategy is just standing and fighting together, but the area itself and the spawns that come ensure that some teams cant pull that off. A ranged career cant beat 3 stormvermin + adds in melee if there is no room to dodge around normally.
Then stuff like gas and stormers to add fuel to the fire…and thus splitting occurs and things often go south very quickly.
Unless someone wants to provide proof this affects the spawns, no, the spawns still happen. Grimalackt’s event breakdown post from a while back is the only definitive list of how event spawns work as far as I’m aware and it doesn’t mention anything about that
There is a bug with spawns sometimes where it just spams them from the start of the fight, at least I’ve run in to it a couple times
I see, well i wouldnt know since most of my QP teams either steamroll rasknit or die to rattler&growing mob army with little in between
As for the bug, yup i´ve seen it, and another where it just starts spawning monks and vermin for like 6 or 7 waves in a row. I think the trigger for that was dealing too much damage quickly to rattler or rasknit.
I was quite sure it worked like that. I thought there was something in a patch note about it?
Can’t exactly remember, maybe a player told me, I’m not sure. I seem to remember watching him call for reinforcements for the fight though. It’s easy enough to reproduce anyway. If you don’t stagger him you get swarmed.
This is really old but unless you can link that patch note my experience has always been the opposite
If your team is already doing well enough that players are holding corners down, you probably won’t really be noticing the spawns because they’re being dealt with so quickly which may be giving the impression it’s stopping the spawns. Plus there’s just a ton of spawn variance with that finale
It’s really not my intention to turn the tables on you, but I really suck on recalling sources.
The link you sent me has really great info, but it doesn’t mention spawns there one way or the other.
Plus, as we can see from CoD, it’s not up to speed. CoD’s spawns don’t stop anymore if nobody is in the ritual, which is one if not THE biggest problem with that map.
So, there are a lot of replies about how much Legendary Convocation of Decay finale is messed up, results of vote are crystal clear, and developers have been gaving no response for 8 months.
While it’s pretty obvious what this means, I’m gonna put my two cents anyway.
This event is needs to be toned down and have its randomness reduced.
I managed to record some videos of it in action (bots are included).
The fresh one where I goofed. I am Waystalker with a team of semi-competent bots. Everything goes nice and chill until 2:55, when I fail to shoot (even find) a blightstormer and have to jump down. Game suddenly forgets, that’s it’s Legend.
Actually, let’s count the amount of specials between 2:55 and 4:40. 2 Blightstormers, 1 hookrat, 2 gunners, 1 assassin, 2 fire rats. And how many elites? All of this within the interval of 1.5 minutes. And they just keep coming and coming.
I know, I make mistakes, blah blah blah gitgud blah blah blah. But is this event fine? Most of the Legend maps are beatable with the same setup relatively easy for me, so I say no, this event isb’t fine.
This is an old video, made in September, but I believe that Convocation finale has been untouched since that moment. I hope. I play aggressive Footknight, but bots are supposively worse. Mistakes are made, but the game is won. But where are the enormous amounts of elites and specials?
Please, adjust this map, it’s too outstanding and random.
Thanks for the footage. The first video is a clear example of a broken event.
It wasn’t my focus but I think you made the right priorities and were on point with handling high threats up until 2:25. Att 2:25 we hear the cue for an assassin, shortly followed by a flame rat, a CW voice cue, another flamer, and then it’s hard to keep track because stuff just keep pouring in. That scenario would be hard to stay on top of even for many four player groups even if they are competent and well coordinated.
The second video is of a different caliber. The fact that you can kite for a while without being overwhelmed or excessive bomb use speaks for itself.
As for event composition and design, some events have been changed more and less, but they still seem to follow the same general design from the launch of the game. Link Grimalackt’s breakdown.
The main description for CoD end event is as follows:
“This event consists of an initial wave (a simultaneous event_medium and event_small_chaos) followed by a long set of incomings that repeat themselves if the event is not over by the time they are exhausted. It also has extra terror events chosen from a pool of 3 in charge of spawning specials while the main event is ongoing.”
The second video follows that description, with minor changes, and the first one does as well, assuming the spawn timers broke down completely. (Don’t expect to understand the description if you are not already familiar with the event design or if you haven’t read the first paragraphs of the linked post.)
