Charm traits need something for grimoires bearer

Actually, charm traits is only usefull if you get a potion… why not a trait like:
if a ally use a potion near you, you get the effect of the potion.

or something like :
when you use your ultimate you gain the effect of a random potion for 5s

or at least :
when a boss spawn, you gain effect of a random potion.

that can be helpfull… cause actually, when i play as a tank and hold a grim for the entire game… charm traits are just useless. i can literally play with a blue charm, that doesn’t gonna change anything.

(ps: sorry for my english)

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Yeah would be nice but to be honest the effects would have to be greatly gimped in comparison to drinking a potion the normal way to be balanced in my opinion

I mean potions are a source of great power and a part of grims job is to supress this a little (and the health loss of course)

On the other hand since i always carry a grim it’s sad to loose a game-mechanic because of bettter loot, so i wish they would debuff you in some other form

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The whole point of books in general is to add a risk-reward element to the game. You make it harder by cutting out your available supplies and your overall health pool, but if you succeed you have increased your odds for better loot.

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I think pretty much everyone understands this. The reason you see threads like this anyway, is that to most people that isn’t a fun or satisfying mechanic. Similar reason to why most will never like back to basics deeds. Removing mechanics and options/gameplay complexity isn’t a very enjoyable way to increase difficulty.

Besides, the health loss and inability to carry potions is enough punishment. Doesn’t need to nullify your charm trait as well (which obviously it does indirectly since all charm traits currently only affect potion use).

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the risk need to not being able to hold a potion and loss health, same as a tome but tome still allow you to heal yourself and proc your traits… grimoire need a way to allow your charm effect and get a potion effect but not like holding one potion, remember, those idea are (in my post) mostly random or less powerfull than a concoction effect. (or the +50% durability)

Well, the tome offers a smaller risk and penalty for less of a reward. Personally I’ve always enjoyed the books mechanic the way it is in both of games. And once you no longer need books, you have alternatives like Cataclysm or twitch mode to keep the game challenging while also not limiting your gameplay options.

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sure, but actually, holding a grim is like having a blue charm…

i know lost potion effect is the attempt for grim. the problem is just it feel stupid to literraly have a trait for nothing. You build your character in a succefull way, not a way “if i die and lost the grim, that gonna be usefull”.

How is

or

less powerful? The first ones means you can profit from each potion another player is using which is the vice versa of Proxy just having a better triggering chance. The second one means you get a random potion effect every active skill. With careers like Handmaiden, Slayer or Zealot who active skill every few seconds it means that the player is under potion effect for the majority of horde fights. It doesn’t even matter which effect: with concentration he will have the active skill up right again, with Speed Potion he will derp around like Speedy Gonzales and with Strength potion he will shred everything. These suggestions are actually more powerful than the traits we currently have. The last one is the only one which is a bit balanced as the moment you see the boss the potion effect is already gone and you don’t encounter bosses to much. It would still give you five seconds preparation time when you trigger a boss fight during hordes.

Other than Throne_of_Rats is right. Books were intentionally designed like this that you have to give something up for better loot. They are not meant to be fun as horrid as it sounds. Grimoires are cursed books which promise you more power (better loot) but are actually hurting you in the process (stripping game mechanics from you). It is a meta-joke.

I am not saying if this is good or bad design. I am not advocating for one thing or the other. But the books have been designed this way specifically and the “fun” argument will not hold a candle for that reason. Mainly because the player has the choice to simply ignore them. Then again, most cursed items have an addiction-like influence on the mind :stuck_out_tongue:

What could be argued is the effect of the curse (currently health loss). But there seems to be no interest to change that one.

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The books are an additional challenge. The challenge provides a reward.

yup, to me only the first one is stronger, maybe play with value, like make it for 2s can be nice. that’s gonna be usefull but not insane… remind, you lost decanter and concoction…

for the opposit proxy… well, proxy is useless literally. but the opposit can be nice, you can still have a normal potion effect, but less powerfull cause it’s only gonna be like proxy so you gonna have the normal effect for 10s. it’s just the best effect if you take grim every run.

and the last effect gonna be like proxy… if you get a boss spawn, it’s gonna be usefull 1/5 time… cause as you said, it’s already done when the boss are here… only usefull if ou get a horde / patrol at same time.

It really isn’t an issue of the grimoire effect imo. It’s an issue of trait design. Tomes are also supposed to make the game more difficult by not allowing you to carry heals, but the traits on the neck still have meaningful impact on gameplay. The trait for charm wouldn’t even need to be related to a potion. Necks have traits that aren’t related to healing pots. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to have a non-pot related trait on charms that wasn’t as strong or stronger than any current trait (otherwise it would just be the meta pick in every situation). For example, it could be something as simple as “gives the wearer 5% attack speed when carrying a grim.”

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From a gameplay perspective I agree that nothings speak again adding such a trait (other than Attack Speed being pretty boring choice). But it should at least fit in with the concept idea behind the specific traits and properties. For Necklace it is “Healing” and for Charms it is “Potions” which could be expanded to “Temporary Buffs”. So it should work on something along those lines.

But this give me a good idea for the Traits and Properties rework. Although, I have to note that there is actually a solid concept behind what Fatshark made. It is just that some choices skewed the balance. And traits are more in need than properties.

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Just throw the old “increases power by %15 when the team is holding a grim” talent onto a charm trait and call it a day.

Or you could not carry grim and take Proxy instead.

There are always choices.

Unfortunately, it’s too late to be removing/adding/changing traits/properties.

Darktide is coming.

That’s a strange argument. However you swing it if you’re taking grims then at least one person in your team is effectively wearing a blue charm. Everyone knows proxy is great, it’s pretty irrelevant to OP’s point though.

Maybe if it was just for whoever is actually carrying the grimoire. Otherwise that just sounds like easy breakpoints for the whole party for the price of one dude carrying a grim. I could see getting 1 grim with everyone running that trait become pretty standard for Cata.

Maybe I’m overestimating 15% power, haven’t mathed anything out but it sounds pretty damn impactful for a lot of classes.

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Doesn’t have to be exactly how the talent was in the past, but it’s a decent starting point imo. It’s an easy marauder cleave breakpoint for things like rapier/dagger.

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As someone who carries grims in 90%+ of games, I see the problem here is that this would be something of a straight up buff. One that doesn’t feel necessary at the moment.

I just wanted to point out that the same “blue” issue can come up on the necklace as well, if you happen to be running healing supply dupe or the hand of Shallya. Those traits don’t do anything unless you are actually carrying a healing item or a medkit specifically, and there’s really no point in micro-managing who picks up what in a game most of the time anyway. In contrast to the necklace, all the traits that can roll on charms or trinkets are practically non-existent unless you have a potion/bomb in your inventory, so I really don’t see the grimoire being that big of a deal.

You’re actually making his point. There are traits on the neck that would essentially turn it into a blue. To compensate, the neck has traits that work regardless of whether you choose to carry a tome. That’s the exact way the OP is asking charm traits to work.

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Yeah literally exactly what @Sleezy said. There’s a world of difference between having some choices that will still have an impact (barkskin, boon, technically all of them actually since tomes can be traded in and out of your inventory unlike grims), and having no options at all that do anything.

To be fair I’m not sure anyone’s suggested it’s a big deal, but I think saying it’d be nice to have options that aren’t negated by carrying a grim is both fair and completely consistent with the general design of the game.

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