Ever since Cata came out my friends and I have stopped doing book runs and farming chests as there is no real point for us if we usually only win one or two rounds a session (usually 4 or 5 tries). We have all the Red items and plenty to spare but I am worried that with 4 more careers coming out with possibly 2 new weapons per character our supply of extra Reds will dwindle.
The thought of having to go back down to Legend to “farm” more emp chests for reds just does not appeal to me so I have a few thoughts on how to handle “Red Farming” on Cata.
The first suggestion is obvious. Make a Cata chest with a higher red drop rate, this would make full book runs on cata not feel like a waste of time for some people and getting an even cooler looking chest would be satisfying at the end of a hard run.
The other suggestion would be to just give a red dust at the end of a successful cata run. This could also be done for other difficulty’s.
Example;
Veteran = 10 Green Dust
Champion = 5 Blue Dust
Legend = 3 Orange Dust
Cataclysm = 1 Red Dust
If the idea of 5 cata wins equals a new red item seems a bit to fast or broken then make red items cost 10 Red dust so that 10 cata wins equals a red item. If this approach was taken then all dust stored in some ones inventory could be doubled so you don’t loose any red dust and salvaging a red item would give you 2 red dust so things stay relatively the same.
This change would allow you to work towards getting some red items without having to farm for them.
These are a few of my ideas on how to make cata a bit more rewarding and have an alternative to just farming books on Legend for reds. If you have anything to add to the ideas or any ideas of your own I would like to hear them, I would also like to know if this is a problem for you or if you don’t really care and think dev time would be better spent else where?
Unless we know for sure a new career will require max breakpoints to make it viable on cata, there isn’t really a point discussing this i think. As currently the answer is what it has always been: reds are not needed and orange items are common enough.
Hmm I guess this brings up another point that I have not thought about. Blues and Greens can also be more then viable for cata and they can be even more common then oranges so having the weapon and it being viable is not really the issue for me, however if you like to try out new builds and see what you can come up with by re-rolling all the time and crafting new items for builds you want to keep then reds are really the only option if you have no interest in weaves and want to stay in official with your friends.
Reds are much more of a quality of life feature then they are anything else in my opinion, I see your point but until we get a total crafting rework reds will still be very important to some people. Maybe not all but certainly some. I don’t claim to be right on this but that is just my opinion on the matter of if they are needed or not.
TLDR
Reds are not needed but are more of a QoL for the current crafting system.
Tbh players are so stuck on rarities and loot chest types. It would be best to just remove it if players overvalue it’s importance.
Just add some kind of athenor system. No illusions, no rerolling worries, no rng luck special color item, no feeling of being behind.
But it would also remove the entire current system and i know there are some players who enjoy the ‘loot’ feeling and ‘getting rare items’, even tho they don’t mean much.
The whole RNG loot box system should be eliminated and replaced with the athanor crafting system.
Fatshark have a blind spot when it comes to books. They routinely force quickplay Cata players to drop down to legend for a few hours every week to get tomes and grims for the shillings quests. Similarly, they force members of pre-made teams to play 10 quickplay games to get shillings. The arrogance baffles me. Let players enjoy the game the way they like best. The only weekly quest should be complete X games. X should be the same for all players no matter how much DLC they own. Why are people that have invested more money in Fatshark by purchasing more DLC expected to grind more than people that don’t own it? Surely, giving them more reward for the same effort becasue they support you would be logical (and it’s not pay to win because shillings are solely for cosmetics).
I could turn it like this aswell: You don’t have to complete your weeklies as shillings are purely for cosmetic purpose.
I do agree that weeklies are boring, but there should be a bit of direction players get pushed into. Not just ‘play games’ ‘get kills’ ‘use ultimate x times’. Those are easy and not really weeklies imo.
Play 10 qp games, get 15 tomes or 8 grims are similarly uninspired but they force players to change who they play with and sometimes the difficulty they play on. Furthermore, some players have all the reds in the game so books are just a pointless chore.
This would be ideal, as yourself and others have stated the system is already in the game if you own WoM but it can not be used outside of weaves. Reds make re-rolling not nearly as painful as rolling a orange to how you want it so for anyone who finds themselves using the current crafting system a lot, the more reds the merrier. At least until we get a new crafting system.
I feel this speaks to some of my underlying issues with the current game in this post. I have been playing V2 for some time now and I know exactly how I like to play, I have done thousands of Quickplays and book runs and I get tired of having to do them and play the game like it’s a chore to grind shillings or farm reds. Thats why I am all for different ways to do them like I suggested in the post but I am all for anyone’s ideas. Like the one you gave here for shillings.
The whole chest system is poorly thought out, and poorly implemented. I don’t claim to have any idea what direction to take it, except to say that the athenor system is literally the ONLY good thing that we’ve gotten from weaves, and should be adopted into the main game as the way you actually get your loot.
I agree. Fatshark are freaking obssessed with artifically inflating grind using dipshit RNG mechanics and duplicates. I think they believe that grind = player engagement. IMO, it has the opposite effect. I played WoM Beta 1 and 2; and under the athanor system that they originally designed you had to re-level every character and weapon again using essence, which was only available from weaves (not standard mode) and the amount of essence you got from completing a weave dropped to almost zero after you had completed it once. To top it all off, they wanted to re-set everybody’s weave characters back to level 0 and all weapons to power level zero at the start of every season to keep the dumb-ass leaderboard that no one cares about “fair”. It really makes me wonder what the designers are smoking over there in Sweden. Vermintide 2 is by far my most played game. Its core gameplay is really fun but the standard crafting system is a disaster that only increases needless grind. It just baffles me why they don’t just make the logically designed athanor system the only crafting system in the game. It would make progression much more satisfying and the game a lot more fun. I got every red skin after 2.3K hours. I don’t give a damn about loot now and the game is even more fun. Fatshark should just let players max out their loot after ~200 hours. That’s a reasonable amount of time for a ‘completionist’ that only a very small percentage of players will hit.
This thread is everywhere but is also bringing up a lot of good points. I will totally ignore hypotheticals such as a rework/use of Athanor for adventure mode when replying to this topic.
Gaining a red dust or a chance at red dust, 33% chance or whatever the number may be, is perfectly reasonable to me.
When I started doing higher difficulties it was legend deeds and then twitch deeds combined with books. This pretty much guaranteed two high tier chests each run even though the runs took a bit longer. In contrast, if I started playing a few months ago I’d be playing Cata and not really see much loot progression. I can definitely see how this is a turn off for newer players and that they feel forced to grind legend for loot.
OP also made a very good point about it not being a loot incentive in the sense of getting reds with illusions but simply to benefit from the QoL reds offer when rerolling and trying builds. I think it’s perfectly reasonable.
There is a real conundrum here.
On one hand without proportionally better rewards, cata feels less meaningful and forces you to go back to legend to farm items, challenges etc. It also lowers the amount of people motivated to bother with it so it’s harder to find matches.
On the other hand, with proportionally better rewards it might (but maybe not) attract many people ill-equipped to deal with the challenge, just because they want better loot, hoping to get carried.
I believe the latter point is the reason for FS to not adjust rewards, so that the few people who enjoy such an insane challenge in the first place have a safe haven for highly coordinated teamplay without unprepared players stumbling in and causing wipes just cause of bling.
But I am not convinced that would be an issue. Everyone will try a harder difficulty at some point, some will be ready for it, some won’t, no matter the reason they enter.
Therefore I think while more people would be motivated to play cata, the ratio of prepared teamplayers to unprepared selfish players would remain roughly the same.
But I don’t trust FS to motivate anyone to do anything. So far they have done a consistently great job at discouraging people from playing modes purely by design. Be it the events with obnoxious objectives, no customization and no noteworthy rewards or the weaves where every single stage gets its own queue, now with a QP function that still doesn’t resolve the progression issue.
Honestly,people should farm reds on Legend, not on Cata.
Compared to Cata Legend is a wellness weekend, Cata throws everything at you, at the same time. People should/supposed to play Cata when they have at least 2-3 fully red geared characters and known how to handle the game.
Cata should have its on loot tier, above red, in my opinion, as its literally the endgame, but that would cause more damage than good to the game’s economy, especially since Cata is behind a paywall (and it shouldn’t be), so, as of now, giving Cata a better chest tier would be quite inappropriate (because the paywall), but I agree on a theoretical level that it should give a better chest tier, but as mentioned there are other factors.
