Yeah I realised my mistake after making the post you quoted and now am trying desperately to stay on topic 
BM Caxe has honestly been talked about surprisingly little. I’m very happy to lay into something overtuned that isn’t Vet related for a change 
Just for the record i like it the most on tac axes. The swing speed and built in crit mod make them perform the best on average in my opinion but the antax will look better against some armored scenarios. Also just the ability to actually stagger enemies consistently by swinging is an invaluable upgrade to axes due to how well they stagger compared to other weapons.
And as for the other weapons - i wish youd compare other weapons besides power sword tho. In retrospect i probably shouldnt have even mentioned that in the op because it seemed to trigger some major PTSD for some people.
For the record (again) as i said in my op power sword will outperform axes damage wise but the problem is that in the situation when sh. hits the fan and youd really want to get value out of those multiple armored elite cleaving powered up attacks because youre surrounded by a horde and a bunch of other things, thats also when the poor dodges and the activation time on the thing are most punishing.
And to give a starting nudge for other weapons…
Swords with BM or other hitmass ignoring blessing - Already come with good cleave, gain almost nothing from BM but perform much worse in almost all other areas than axes.
Eviscerator with perfect strike specifically might be the one weapon that has the best argument for being useful. Does surprisingly poor against armor though without activating and activating is a huge risk. Also doesnt actually gain much from ignoring hitmass against anything other than groups of armored elites. Mobility wise not amazing.
Duelling swords - cant have BM, poor cleave, worse stagger, worse damage profile against most targets than axes - might perform better against single target unarmored - didnt actually check discrepancy in other areas is too blatant to even be worth considering for that alone.
Knifes - also no BM, perform worse in almost all areas but might win out against single target crushers if given time to both bleed AND use bleed weakspot bonuses. Even if they do its not gonna be by much. Also have horrendous stagger. You know… a glaring weakness that isnt fixed by slapping a single blessing on the wep.
For fun one of the ogryn zap mace (not relevant because no axes on ogryn - seen someone else bring up the shovel as well - more anecdotal than anything else for this thread) - also can have BM but completely irrelevant because activating already lets it ignore hitmass and even base chained lights have crazy good cleave - BM doesnt make a difference.
The problem is that other people dont share my sentiment that the game is already too easy. Especially melee enemies are a complete joke and this blessing on axes definitely contributes to that.
The problem is i cant play solo despite that being a promised feature.
The problem is i cant block more than 50 people.
Honestly the most cohesive argument against nerfing BM that i can think of didnt even come up. And thats how silly overpowered guns are in this game. Just hold leftclick for 3 seconds at a bunch of elites and theyre all dead anyway.
Evic lights stop doing damage past the 2nd or 3rd enemy depending on the specific light attack. The heavy sweep also does no damage past the 3rd or 4th enemy cleaved so getting more cleave is 100% just for more control in its case. You take a cleave blessing on it anyway usually since it only has the 1 damage blessing (Rampage). Generally yeah it doesn’t get a fraction of the value Caxe gets from BM from its cleave blessings.
Wanted to qualify that, pretty much just straight agree with everything else you said.
I do also want to qualify on a separate note that BM with Taxe seems mostly fine. Smaller attack range and faster attack speed means they generally feel the benefit much less. Taxe II actually has great heavy attacks for BM animation wise but… They do no damage past the 3rd target cleaved so it’s another case where you’re just getting more control, and again even that is limited by the relatively short reach of the weapon
That’s why I think it is not related to BM on CA / TA. It is more a problem of cleave. BM is just a super cleave effect.
And if I quoted PS, it was just to say that the CA is not the ultimate weapon.
In fact, I actually try to get a good power sword. If it was the perfect weapon, why would I try to get a good PS? I have on my veteran a combat axe with, as base (=locked) +1 stamina and BM T4. I actually use it with headtaker T4 (I plan to change it in… approximately 35 minutes) and +25% against carapace. So why would I try an other weapon? Well, cause PS is really strong.
Yes it has weakness… but it is also one of the most powerful weapon in darktide.
But tbh, lot of melee weapons are really good. Even the ogryn shovel is really good (and BM is available but not working at all on this weapon - weapon always damage only 3 enemies, BM or not).
So, we come back to the cleave problem. If you consider that there is a problem.
In my opinion, melee weapon are well balanced. If you ask me, the PS is the stronger weapon, but it has weakness. So, not even sure it would need a nerf. But if the zealot can’t have a good cleave weapon, then, the PS will need a nerf. The vet cannot have what would become the best melee weapon and can get the better of ranged weapons.
Again this is true of many weapons besides Shovel. See my point about Tax II heavies above, or honestly a lot of weapons with cleave blessings, like the Evic example also given above. It’s just an inherent way some weapons’ (quite a lot actually) work. BM always gives you infinite stagger cleave, it is in no way “bugged”, some weapons just have unfavorable damage cleave values. Shovel suffers from the issue both with and without BM.
This may be for very good Players, that something is OP. Hard to make it fit for everyone but i guess the major part of the Players is playing T3 or T4 and struggeling at T5. I guess it´s most of the time because they have not the best situational awareness… So for them, it´s ok like it is and these Weapons are the only Way to survive. OK, they could play T2 or 3 but with this few enemies its boring. Maybe you should not use Blessings above T1 and choose a lower Baselevel of the Weapons, to make it harder for you. Sounds silly but it´s not a Joke because i doubt they will make it fit for the few “pro” Players. Like in other Games. But i absolutely understand your point. Maybe a T6 is missing, idk. Maybe one of the hardest tasks to make a game for every ones taste and skill cap.
I really think it is bugged.
When you take a shovel without BM it hits 3 enemies.
You put BM, it hits 3 enemies with same damages
This is what I call bugged
I find so many wrong things in this statament, so let me explain in detail even if I alredy mentioned this. And i did read your post fell fre to keep thinking that i didn’t though but you clearly didn’t read mine as i alredy replied to some of your questions.
You state this in your opening post:
This statament is false, staggering multiple elites is not reliable as it possible to achive only by activating BM for that you need to have one one groaner or poxwalker to oneshot in the head, “shreding” trhough hordes is a big overstatement since there his horde clear potential is far from the top.
Again
This statament is false they are not almost PS they are very far from the damage a PS can make and i alredy said this to you. Maybe if you actually read what i said…
About the number and the contexts i was giving some things for granted but seems is necessary to be more specific:
One horde in Darktide is made by Groaners or Poxwalkers so try to imagine having to face one on damnation.
You can choose to equip whatever axe you want and you can even choose to use whatever attack you want but is advised to use somehow orizontal or diagonal sweeps.
This are Combat Axe mk5 and mk2 light chain and push attack, Combat Axe mk8 push attack and heavy 1, Tac Axe Mk2 heavy chain or push attack and the light chains of other marks.
Now there are a lot of options to choose so i will handpick the options that are the best in my opinion but if you have a preferred combination of attacks on a specific axe feel free to let me know so we can ave the comparison.
I’m taking as an example Tac axe mk2 heavy chain to keep the comparing 2 heavys (i’m using 2 godrolled weapons for this example for sake of simplicity, also from what you write seems you don’t know how to read the tables that i posted, my mistake assuming you were familiar with the breakpoint calculator:
So now you can better read even this table
providing that you are able to hit one headshot with the tac axe you are going to deal 279 to the first opponent and 113 to the second (always if you headshot ) and you will keep dealing to all the other 76 ( providing that yopu keep headshotting them all wich is highly unlikly since the diagonal pattern of the swing ) and i’m assuming that brutal momentum is alredy activated because tecnically it can’t be triggered in this swing if we are talking about poxwalkers.
Now PS: if like we assumed with the Axe we hit all headshots, the first 3 poxwakers are going to die on the first hit, the fourth poxwalker is going to take almost 3 times the damage as his Axe counterpart.
So in scale if we take a pool of 20 poxwalker here is the damage comparison of the 2 swings only headshots:
| head | head | |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 300 | 287,85 |
| 2 | 300 | 113,85 |
| 3 | 300 | 75,9 |
| 4 | 208,54 | 75,9 |
| 5 | 187,68 | 75,9 |
| 6 | 166,83 | 75,9 |
| 7 | 145,97 | 75,9 |
| 8 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 9 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 10 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 11 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 12 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 13 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 14 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 15 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 16 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 17 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 18 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 19 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| 20 | 104,27 | 75,9 |
| tot | 2964,53 | 1767,9 |
You can see difference in roughly 1000 damage per swing in advantage of the PS on a pool of 20 Poxwalkers. Do you still think there is no reason to pick PS over Axe? considering that you will have even easir time dealing with a pack of ragers/crushers with PS?
And this is not correct, there can be plenty of other reasons to chose other weapons depending of the build you are using, i have just simply showcased one of the most outrageosly obvious other available options.
This is a fair point and i don’t contest it, what i contest is the fact that you state that there is no reason to run anything else except BM Axe and that it can come even close to the strength of a PowerSword wich is a disinformed statement at best and ridiculous at worst.
You want to make an easy and approachable OP about the fact that BM Axes are strong and a bit to strong for your opinion, no problems. But don’t fill in your post with false statments if you want your point to be taken seriusly.
Vet shovel has 2 cleave on lights, 6 on heavies (definitely cleaves more than 3 poxwalkers without BM). Ogryn shovel has 6.8 cleave on its sweep lights and 11.2 on its heavy sweep. Yeah uhhh it definitely hits more than 3 enemies without BM and guess what, with or without BM it doesn’t do damage past the 3rd target. This is not a bug.
it staggers past the third… but do not hit.
I won’t argue with you…
I was happy, I had rolled a BM T4 on the shovel… then I asked on discord what I should put as a perk… and then I have learnt that the weapon is bugged.
I tested, and yes it is totally bugged.
When a blessing does nothing, then the blessing is bugged. It is not a mater of numbers.
You’re wrong here, cause I tested it (and verified again now).
BM or not, nothing happens. BM should permits you to cleave more.
Check with health bar mod and go in the psykhanium…
no I won’t do you a video… there’s already a bug report and you can ask on discord also.
Ultimately, you can buy an ogryn shovel and try it and you will see that it doesn’t damage more than 3 enemies. You can roll BM on it (if you have time to loose at verifying something that is documented already) and you will see that BM does nothing.
By the way… this is not the topic…
Hey, we don’t agree, that’s fine. Whether you like it or not: the fact that 85% or more of total players stopped playing darktide in December 2022 and you and I were both playing still at the end of February 2023 puts us in the same category of player – at least in one respect. We both enjoyed and cared enough about this game to make it that far.
Brutal Momentum is fine. The absence of many other Blessings that make the player feel like they are worth chasing is the problem.
That was quite interesting.
So i usually use mostly lights for trash since i really value not getting carpal tunnel (using glovepie as a second keybind to mousewheel) and i use heavies specifically for stacks of elites for stagger. I would disagree that their reach is limiting, while its not ideal you can do a lot with dodging/dragging to improve your total targets but obviously the bigger axes will have an advantage here (i.e. ultimately the specific axe u want really is just a matter of preference - i think theyre all pretty nuts with BM). I also see a lot of people back away from enemies - but i tend to walk forward as close as i can to get better coverage - they really arent a threat most of the time.
Anyway, reading your post i was quite surprised and i checked lights on all axes i happen to have with BM rn and ALL of their lights have no target limit for damage. I didnt bother to check the heavies but either way, that seems like a really odd interaction with heavies/lights specifically where heavies end up performing much worse than lights in context of BM.
It’s more to do with aoe stagger than damage. You’re more likely to be cleaving into arms or bodies than weakspots, and the falloff isn’t necessarily getting you into the next breakpoint if you can already oneshot a head on the first attack. It’s mostly about managing the horde without having to use as much stamina for shoves.
Yeah that’s correct. All Taxe lights will do damage to potentially infinite targets, while Caxe & Taxe push attack, as well as all Taxe heavies (possibly some Caxe heavies too) stop doing damage past the 3rd target.
tac axe light attack patterns will only hit maybe two or three at the most anyways
I personally think that brutal momentum is just awful in terms of blessing design. If you don’t roll this on a axe you might as well throw it into dumpster.
So the middle ground should probably that axes by default get bit more cleave and brutal momentum would get heavily nerfed or removed.
I really cannot see axes being popular if they are turned into single target weapons like they were in V2. You want some type of cleave/control for weapon to feel good to use.
I think BM is fine. The dmg fall off is huge. The third enemy gets tickled and after that its just a stagger. Great for control but to kill a group of trashmobs will take a while.
PS is so OP, its a bit unfair to compair it to any weapon, though.
While I don’t begrudge BM nerf, the thought of spending 100+ hours to make Caxe builds again is bigger issue for me.