Brutal Momentum on axes is insanely op and needs a nerf (including suggested fix)

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

I think, but maybe you will correct me, that the weakness of the Combat Axe is the defense that is weaker than with other weapon
I would say that Brutal Momentum is really a great blessing. This is not with just the Antax (let’s repeat that this is not combat axes but just Antax MK V), but all weapons with BM (except Ogryn’ shovel as BM has no effect on this weapon, sad cause I had a BM T4 blessing on one).
The problem is, in my mind, not BM, but all other blessings that are not working or poorly designed.
Examples

  • decapitator. It doesn’t work.
  • shred, on the combat axe, totally useless
  • limbsplitter, it is a penalty to your weapon
  • all or Nothing, I refuse to think that there’s a player that always walk to benefit of the entire bonus.
  • decimator, drop when you hit one different enemy

So, for the CA, what remains? Headtaker, thunderous, thrust and brutal momentum.

Also, blessing like perfect strike, in other weapons like the Heavy sword, are totally useless. Before they were lasting several seconds, now they don’t last. As a result, this blessing is one of the numerous blessing darktide has and that is useless.

Is BM good? yes absolutely. However, BM, as I said, is available on lot of weapons… even on the heavy sword (called Deathblow) has it. Even the Thunder hammer has it, it is called Shock and Awe and is less efficient (but as it lasts 0.5 s, it never permits to get the benefit of the blessing, that’s a bugged blessing)
I really think that they should fix all these blessings useless cause poorly designed or useless cause bugged.

So, is there something that can be done about BM? Yes… if really FS thinks that it is too strong, they have to rework all cleaving weapons in the game, so all weapons that have BM, but also Swords (heavy and catachan), and blessing that increase cleave (savage sweep and wrath). They just need to reduce the base cleave and make the BM as a bonus cleave like savage sweep or wrath is, but that would be initiated by a weak spot kill.

Why I say this?
Cause a Power sword can cut in two parts EVERYTHING. The swords can clean an horde faster than an axe. All weapons that has or get a large cleave, can do large damage when there are groups of enemies.

BUT… there’s a need to keep, in my opinion, just normal swords as they are (heavy and catachan). In fact these swords have weakness (carapace and also flak). So their cleave, it the only thing that make them a good weapon. So maybe the nerf of the cleave, should be lighter on these weapons.

EDIT: and please FS, if you read this… make perfect strike and devastating strike somewhat useful… find something.

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22

Its arguably the strongest weapon blessing, in that it noticeably changes the way your weapon behaves… You can see the difference when you proc the increase to your cleave.

Should it be nerfed? I don’t think so. Its a valuable tool to help people set up their loadouts.

As Ralendil says a lot of the other blessings are weak or just flat out broken. Any changes that make people weaker should wait at least until the broken or under performing blessings and weapons are fixed.

Just my opinion.

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23

I made a list here of bugged blessings.

But there are also poorly designed:

  • limbsplitter
  • devastating strike: one shot but before it was lasting like BM. There’s a need to return to a periods of time, cause actually this is totally useless
  • perfect strike: one shot… useless cause the weapons that have it don’t proc critical hit so often.

that’s just 3 examples that came in my mind immediately.

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I mean not with BM, and not in any particular way I can think of. Solid mobility, reasonably quick, good stagger power (further enhanced by power blessings). What weaknesses were you thinking of specifically defensively?

Debatable. It stacks per enemy cleaved and definitely helps running Caxe with Zealot crit build. Outside that build I wouldn’t take shred, that much is true.

Honestly not bad situationally. Running a limbspitter + thrust caxe on, say Purg Psyker, where you can afford to only bring it out on elites, and it’s very easy and efficient to block/QQ cancel heavy 1 over and over, is definitely a very strong single target deleter. It’s instant after swap so it has some advantages. Niche certainly, but again I could see it being good for Purg Pskyer.

OK I won’t argue this one is worth a damn but it does have a funny little interaction. For some reason All or Nothing is the last remaining blessing that applies to everything without your melee weapon being active. If you stack it with Cerebral lacerations, and 6 warp charges, All or Nothing just barely pushes you over to 2 shotting a Crusher with BB on Damnation. Again not arguing this is actually good or worth a blessing slot to achieve but it’s kinda neat and since this blessing was brought up wanted to share.

No decimator is dropped when you break your attack chain by either blocking, missing an enemy entirely, or not hitting anything for a short duration. Like shred it actually stacks per target cleaved, which is why it’s an optimal pairing with BM, usually two attacks into a horde and you’re max stacked for that juicy +50% power, and you’ll keep it as long as you keep mashing that M1. Even if you drop it it’s not a big deal since, again, 2-3 attacks into any number of enemies greater than 1 or 2 and you’ll be max stacks again.

Agreed, devastating strike nerf was also just generally dumb. Again note that this topic is specifically about BM on axes, and since FS has shown that they can tweak blessings on a per weapon basis I see no reason to bring how BM performs on other weapons into the discussion.

I don’t see how this logically follows. Again we know they are capable of tweaking blessings on a per weapon basis. All they really need to do is to change BM specifically for combat axes to be something reasonable, like +200% cleave for x seconds on weak point kill. I would be very surprised if people stopped running BM on Caxe with such a change, with decimator stacked as well you could theoretically cleave up to 6 poxwalkers with Antax lights, as opposed to 2 without it. That would be alleviating the inherent weakness of an axe without entirely negating it as BM currently does. Heck you could also let if refresh while active so it’s a little more consistent as some compensation.

Power sword is a different conversation entirely, and there’s already enough back and forth on it in this thread primarily about axes. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to disagree with OP’s assessment that BM Caxe > Power Sword, while still considering the possibility that BM on Caxe is overtuned generally.

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25

I only have one question, why are you asking to nerf something that is fun instead of buffing the dog sh- selection that currently exists?

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Blocking. The CA has no defense modifier.

Was talking about CA, not TA. With CA, a critic template is not really efficient.

It should… but it doesn’t…

If you says that a weapon is OP, you have to compare with others.
The author has opened the door when he said:

It is not when you compare them with an Antax with BM. Fact is:

  • a PS can clean an horde faster than an Antax with BM and it can also kill crushers etc.
  • an heavy sword can clean an horde faster than the Antax with BM
    I won’t do the list of all weapons…

The problem is not the Antax, the problem is how BM and other cleave blessings work, if there’s a problem.

The point is that I would not see a nerf like what they did to devastating strike coming to BM. Cause, blessing by blessing, we have less and less blessings that work and that are useful.

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Oh yeah, here we go, another thread that wants to nerf one of the only few good options instead if buffing the bad majority.

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I’d love to know how you tested that because using that same blessing icon mod:

Watch the decimator icon show stacks still building and being maintained when swapping target. Using that same mod I saw that cleaving multiple enemies gives a stack per enemy cleave after the first attack in the chain. This also is the same understanding of it I’ve heard from others who’ve done creature spawner/meat grinder testing.

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I do it all the time. Heavies oneshot poxwalkers in the head with the right setup, and heavies are quick enough that it’s often more effective to weave push attacks with heavies (same damage) on a group than to spam lights. Every hit is a kill, which is about 2 or more kills per second, with greater cleave damage as well.

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decimator doesn’t drop when you hit a different enemy, but it does drop is you block, shove, shove-attack, sprint, or lift your finger off the lmb for more than .5-.8 sec, depending on the attack speed of the weapon. That, combined with the fact that it doesn’t even start stacking until after the third hit makes it an actual garbage blessing for anything that isn’t hitting an ogryn. Headtaker will reach 25% bonus power on hit five regardless of any action you take, and decimator will get there after the 8th hit, by then which headtaker will have already had three hits with 25% bonus power, and won’t overtake headtaker in damage until its last stack. Decimator really needs a lot of adjusting to be worthwhile.

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missing an enemy actually won’t break the chain as long as you hit something within the .5-.8 sec stack reset timer.

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I see… and I tested it…
At first I said the same thing like you said me when I have read it on reddit.
But I tested, in the game. And, bonus dropped when switching of target. (note that it was validated by FS at the moment I reported it).

I have just retested now… It seems to work most of the time. Sometime the blessing can act strangely with tactical axe. And the mod says that my bonus stayed even after missing hit and stays active even when not hitting… Server issue? or maybe the mod shows false informations sometimes.

thanks for the info… I will try to craft the Achlys I have kept.

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if that was decimator, why weren’t stacks going past 5?

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you’ll either need headtaker or bonus damage to infested, or some combination. It won’t do it from base damage.

Btw, I prefer the mk2 or mk7. The mk4 has an absolutely awful attack pattern. The mk2 has a side-to-side heavy that’s better for hordes, but worse for picking out elites within a horde. The special is also agonizingly slower than the mk7, but still works ok. It’s easier to spam heads with the mk2 lights than the mk7 (they also oneshot groaner heads with headtaker stacks on light attacks), but it’s easier to hit heads with the heavies on the mk7, especially since the mk2 has a weird hitbox on the heavies- seem to have to aim too high. The mk7 has a faster attack, and the light pattern is good, though the light2 is somewhat awkward to get a headshot with. The special on the mk7 is gold though, as it can stop a poxwalker with a double-tap without it exploding on you. It’s been useful in a couple situations where I wasn’t able to be particularly mobile or I had to hit it within a horde. I use the mk7 on my zealot bc the faster attacks and the mk2 on my vet for the more sweeping heavies.

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Combat axe is limited to 5, while tactical axe is limited to 10

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I see, I got rid of my combat axes after the crafting update. It might be somewhat worthwhile on a combat axe then.

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Times change weird. Can´t remember someone in a coop Game is complaining about a Weapon beeing OP. It´s not a competetive PvP Shooter, so whats the Problem? Just don´t use it if it´s too OP. It´s a Game just for Fun, noone is taking away something from another Player. For some it seems too real imo.

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38

What is up with you guys constantly bitching about the PS?

It attacks slowly and needs the activation to perform well, which creates further downtime while fighting.
It has awful mobility while fighting and unless your teammates are holding the front line, you have to constantly run away from a horde while fighting it.

Many other weapons perform absolutely great, are easier to use and outperform the powersword under pressure.

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I didn’t bring it up randomly, it was directly compared in the thread and for reasons I’ve explained at length elsewhere I don’t agree with OP’s assessment. I did actually want to drop that and actually just talk about BM Caxe though. Do you have any thoughts relevant to main thrust of the topic because TBH I’d rather read that than even more power sword arguments back and forth.

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Same.
That is why i am not a fan of someone (people in general, not you specifically) bringing up this topic in the first place, since this usually is not directly relevant to the thread and causes derailment in basically any balance related thread.