Bots in Chaos Wastes

So after playing Chaos Wastes on Cataclysm with bots it became evident (if it wasn’t previously) that they can’t handle the difficulty.
This is a bit sad because considering they can handle regular Cata pretty well.

I won’t ask for bot improvements at all though.

All I want to ask is can I get their share of Coins? At least some percentage of it?

Playing with bots in Chaos Wastes is already harder than with players.
I don’t think there’s any reason to handicap the solo player even more.
There’s a lot of buffs you could buy for your bot team that you would usually ignore with players. But they’re just not affordable. You want to upgrade yourself as much as possible and there’s just not enough Coins to spare for your bots.

In most cases bots are dying quickly somewhere around Citadel no matter what my build was (though I wasn’t playing really strong characters with bots like Battle Wizard).
In some cases they can die even in earlier maps if the level mods are bad enough for them.
They’re not adapted to stuff like Boss Eggs, AoE explosions etc. and the spawns are just too much for them.
In one of my runs I literally made a trip respawning them all like 3 times in a row. They never had a chance and I don’t really want to speedrun the level true solo style.

While for some characters Chaos Wastes can be a breeze even with bots, a lot of characters can depend on bots in one way or another.
And this idea doesn’t even seem like an unfair buff to the player. It’s just that Coins don’t get wasted on bots.

Do they look like they understand Chaos Wastes economics?

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I’m pretty confident this feature is simply not implemented.
I just compared recordings of my full party vs full bot team runs and there’s virtually no difference in coins you gain. I’d even say that on full player team runs I generally picked up way more Coins from one pickup than compared with bots run (more Coins property considered).
Also you don’t get the bots portion of Coins in the end of the map.
There’s no Coin sharing and if there’s any - it’s not even noticeable.

@FatsharkLev pardon for inconvenience, but I believe the above statement above bots Coin sharing is yours. Issue is that in fact you don’t get bots portion of Coins in Chaos Wastes. Is this a bug or something changed since this statement?

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Hey @DezZzO,

So, I’ve queried this and gleaned a little information.

It’s implemented, and playing solo with bots does increase the Pilgrim’s Coins gained. However, it increases the possible min/max values of coin drops and pickups, so it’s likely you’ll gain more on average, but also entirely possible to roll low and obtain a seemingly standard amount of coins.

Bots do not pick up or have their own coins, so there’s no coin sharing in that sense. Just an increase bump when solo. Perhaps I’ll update that FAQ to be a little clearer! Thanks :slight_smile:

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Thanks for the reply. The last feedback I can give is that these increased Coin amounts are really not noticeable :frowning:

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I’d say the bump could use a bump.

Having played a bunch of full group runs, some duos and some solos, I did not notice any difference at all in the amount if coins received.

When I first heard players would get extra coins to compensate for bots not being able to use them I thought that was an excellent way to mitigate the burden of bots.
But if the increase is small enough to go completely unnoticed because of bad luck with min/max values it just seems pointless.

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Assuming bots currently get no upgrades and are using white items throughout; I’d honestly rather bots just got the exact same upgrades as the host and no extra coins.
Bots already have enough issues jumping off cliffs, running face-first into CW overhead slams without blocking, getting stuck on a map, wasting healing even on those who are full with temp hp at the time. They also seem way worse at dealing with monsters in Chaos Wastes (I assume due to no block cost reduction/stamina recovery on items that they would otherwise have from loadouts).
It just adds another level of frustration ontop of the ongoing performance issues, crashes, and stuck in geometry problems that already end runs, often with no rewards at all.

I love the new content, but it feels like I’m selling my soul to Slaanesh by playing it.

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Honestly anything would do. Personally I’d just prefer to get some share of their Coins.

This would open up a door for even more broken builds on a solo character.
You just get more resources for a potentially broken build which is never guaranteed. And it should be fine, because you’re still playing with bots.

So this would create a situation where you may actually choose to play with bots if you want a higher chance to create a broken build just for yourself with a risk that you have bots and not 3 other players that can get broken builds themselves even with less Coins.

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Things that should be added for bots before launch are as follow - bots should earn coins so when player joins in the place of the bot he has all the coins party previously obtained. I think I’ve read somewhere that its how it SHOULD work but it doesnt. Whenever I join Chaos Wastes in progress I only have coins that were saved on previous run win. I dunno if its because I join as different career so coins dont transfer or just system doesnt work. Also while earning their own coins host should be able to spend them on bots - while in shop host should be able to make purchase for them, also a way to buy shrines for bots with their own coins, especially weapon upgrades. Too many times I’ve joined runs in progress that were more than half expedition done and all I had was white gear with no coins to spend. Bots suffer the most from having white gear with no way to upgrade and not having boons. Try to make a run when u dont buy a single upgrade or get boons from boss chests - u will most likely lose or struggle a lot to kill even smallest enemies. Can be compared to deed that gets rid of all talents/properties and make u “default”. Thats a real struggle - even on Champion that deed is a pain. Now do it for a game mode that takes over an hour to complete with all the curses and extra enemies spawn.

Or if u really dont want to do this because u don’t want bots to be good like u said many times since its coop game then just make them scale with host power. There needs to be something done, the only bot that can be decent and somehow survive CW is IB - anything else just dies while doin nothing.

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This is crazy! When I play solo (I always play solo) on Legend - it’s very very very very hard for me. I will never dare to even try the Cataclysm in V2 as absolutely unrealistic. No, I’m not ashamed, it’s just very difficult.

At the moment, I don’t even see how to proceed on Legend CW Expedition. It took me three attempts to comlete it on Champion solo, several hours of time and astronomical luck.

This game is too hard, but all my red things (garbage for other such epic veteran players) are taken by my honest sweat and blood. Literally.

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Maybe you misunderstood me a bit.
My point was that Cataclysm as a difficulty is pretty much doable with bots.
Bots handle it pretty well if YOU can handle it pretty well.
You still need to understand their behavior.
If you’re going to get caught by specials or catch all the overheads during patrols or hordes all the time - you’re probably not going to see bots as “handling the difficulty well”.
But if you don’t struggle at this difficulty yourself - bots are going to work just fine. They won’t carry you (though they can sometimes clutch revive you).
They won’t solo patrols or bosses.
But they will be enough help in terms of shielding you from specials/hordes and generally buffing you with resistances, attack speed, giving you THP etc.

In the end it’s up to your skill and game sense for sure.

With all that said, I still believe they’re not even close to being doable on Cata Chaos Wastes. And no wonder. In regular games they’re equal to you. Same power, gear, talents. They just can’t use consumables and play the level on their own, that’s it.

In Chaos Wastes they lack so much. Power, properties, traits, boons, unique consumables, understanding basic unique mechanics of this gamemode. And it’s worsen by the fact you yourself handicapped even more by not getting their share of Coins. Well, as dev said you’re getting them, but it’s not even close to being noticeable, sadly.

Though, I think I’m going to try them out on Legend Chaos Wastes just for the sake of it.
UPD: did a few Legend runs, overall they’re doing just fine, but holy hell they die like mayflies in the last even of Citadel

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This is totally unacceptable. I am trying to draw the attention of Delopers to the problems of bots. Absolutely terrible problems that ruin the whole game. Problems that only got worse after the update.

Playing solo on the Legend is 30-40 minutes of exhausting work. Sweat and blood. And all this can be lost in one second.

Expedition in CW is a multiplied risk of losing the work of many hours in the same one second.

Before inventing horrible modifiers like exploding skulls, and in general, weakening bots as crudely as in the Wastes, it was necessary to fix the most terrible bot’s problems.

It’s very hard to play, it’s very easy to lose, the rewards are very poor, but I can’t give up! So have respect for other people’s bloody work!

In a game that is designed for multiplayer co-op, it shouldn’t really come off as surprising if bots aren’t a top priority for development or if they get left behind when new content is added. And tbh there’s a sizeable bunch of issues right now with the game that probably are more critical, from stability problems to broken maps & events. Just pointing out the obvious, in case it isn’t clear enough. :woman_shrugging:

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Does that scale with amount of players? I usually play alone or with just one friend, so I always have 2-3 bots in my game. Or do only pure solo players get a boost and with two players we’re out of luck?

That’s true, though this doesn’t mean people shound’t give feedback.

Absolutely. It’s just that some of the feedback and the way it is formulated looks a bit unreasonable and unrealistic in terms of expectations. Just my opinion of course, I could be totally wrong or off-track.

Tells us more about Fatshark rather than the feedback itself to be honest.

I agree, however I don’t have many friends left who still play this game and don’t really feel like giving myself the pressure to perform by going random quick play. It’d just be nice to have a chill Legend run in Chaos Wastes with bots.

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@Ninaran, yep this scales with the amount of players. So, there is always an increase of some kind depending on the amount of bots.

@All just an update on this, we’ve had some internal discussions about increasing the boosted Pilgrim’s Coins values with bots… watch this space. :grin:

Some other information I thought may be useful to share, is that bots will follow the power-level of the host. When the host upgrades weapons, then all of the bots will gain the same power increase. So, it’s particularly important for the host to end with higher tier weapons to boost the bots.

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That is very important to know! Thanks. :slight_smile:

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