Armoury Shop Chances: A Sad Story of RNG

[MeatShield01]

I recall reading it, but I can’t find it anywhere. Why would the bars/percentages stop at 80%?

[Ashreon]

This is not a matter of getting perfect weapons 2 weeks into a release.
This is a matter of flat out on average not being able to get any weapons you want post 360. Getting to 350 is easy. Getting those same 360 weapons is going to take you at the very least a year on average. Getting those 370 weapons is going to take you several years. Getting a 380 that is just right is going to take you - decades. That is what this is about.

I’ve specified it in the OP, ain’t about perfect weapons, it is about the grotesque RNG from 360+ an onwards. Doesn’t matter how you want to structure the weapon, how much you care about perfect or not. It is an insane amount of time - much longer than this “live service” game’s lifespan.

If you’re talking about the stat weights and I assume you are… Well, wouldn’t you know it, there’s about 80 different permutations of those and say you have a 379 Purgatus staff with 80/79/80/80/60 damage/burn/cloud radius and the only upgrade for you would be 80/80/80/80/60… That’s a very specific range and that is roughly a 1/80 chance to get. Do you, honestly think, with the 380 drop rates for specific weapons, the rng of perks and the rng of stat weights - that will… ever happen?

• We know they cap at 80%, because max base rating is 380, the only way to get above 380 base rating is by consecrating it and the consecration bugging out increasing the base rating (but not awarding more stats).

It is suspected that “Red” weapons will take all bars to 100% or at least allow for the bars to hit 100% otherwise why have a cap at 80%.

I’ve been stuck with 358 staffs for well over 3 weeks now, there’s not been a single staff higher than 360. It’s not for a lack of trying either, I check the store some 14 times a day currently (bless working at home). So, yeah… Do I need them to succeed? No, but it does mean that my builds aren’t as optimal as I would like them to be. I’m fine with spending time in a meaningful manner to perfect my gear… I’m not fine with leaving it all to chance and knowing I could play 10 years and never be able to complete 1 build, let alone multiple.

This was not the way in Vermintide 2. You had a steady supply of materials, you could make the gear you wanted fairly easily and get it to a more than optimal place with little effort and then you were off to PLAY and with a bit of time you would see enough reds that said build would be perfect in a decent span of time - so that you could do that - again and again and again which made the game - fun, it gave it retention.

They said they wanted to improve on that experience… Reduce the RNG and increase player agency… And we got this… Abomination of a gearing system… Thank you, no thanks.

[zaygr]

They must have not actually given any information about the new gearing or crafting system to the blog writer.

[zaygr]

For reasons Fatshark haven’t told anyone yet. No one has even claimed they’ve found a weapon with any stat higher than 80% (someone found a 385 base, but the stats still added up to 380). Personally I think they’ll raise that cap for red item equivalents.

[Ashreon]

As far as I know, people haven’t found a 385 base, what they did was upgrade a 379 base rating weapon to Master-Crafted and that bugged out giving it a 385 base, but having the stats of a 379.

[zaygr]

May I please have a link to where they said different blessings have different rarities? I want it as a reference.

[MeatShield01]

@Ashreon

If you’re talking about the stat weights and I assume you are… Well, wouldn’t you know it, there’s about 80 different permutations of those and say you have a 379 Purgatus staff with 80/79/80/80/60 damage/burn/cloud radius and the only upgrade for you would be 80/80/80/80/60… That’s a very specific range and that is roughly a 1/80 chance to get. Do you, honestly think, with the 380 drop rates for specific weapons, the rng of perks and the rng of stat weights - that will… ever happen?

Yup, just talking about the 0-100 stats at the top. How much better is a ‘380’ vs a ‘360’? Have you run those numbers?

Power sword with 0% damage does 75 per swing, at 80% it’s 99 a difference of 24 it’s about 33% more powerful. But the difference between 70% and 80% is just 3% more damage. 79% to 80% is 0.3%.

@Ashreon

Do you, honestly think, with the 380 drop rates for specific weapons, the rng of perks and the rng of stat weights - that will… ever happen?

Nope, but I don’t see that as an issue. Does a 0.3% improvement really matter?

[TemplarGFX]

I believe there might be a little more to it that is reducing the time it takes, like some randomisation change to give a single higher rated weapon sometimes. That or Ive been super lucky

Ive played 290 hours so far and I have 2 380 base weapons, 7 370-380 base weapons and 5 360-370 weapons

I have an Evis at 379 with amazing stats and a Flamer at 375 with great stats and these are my fav weapons in game

[WSkD]

@MeatShield01

My point is you don’t need to have the perfect set of weapons and equipment to have fun. If you don’t have the equipment to do a tier 5, do tier 4’s, they’re plenty fun.

No problem here. So long we get at least weapons to work with (and not need to look 100 hours into the shop for one (revolver I am looking at you)), I think it is indeed also important to remember to have fun.

Especially because the mission board it a mess. Better to run missions for fun and having fitting modifiers as to stop playing or getting frustrated.

[WSkD]

@zaygr

May I please have a link to where they said different blessings have different rarities? I want it as a reference.

Thats what I found:

@FatsharkQuickpaw

If it helps, this blessing is a bit rare and is harder to find on blue-rarity weapons (though it CAN show up). It has a slightly better chance to show up in higher rarity weapons.

@FatsharkQuickpaw

@Mido

do high-grade items generally have higher chance of getting better perks?

Blessings, but ye. Not sure on the specifics (nor do I think I’d be allowed to divulge them if I did), but that’s the gist of it, at least currently.

Hope this helps!

[zaygr]

Thank you.

[Keln]

Weapon stats stop at 80% to allow for a new tier

[Merdoc]

Thinking about how this system came to be, there’s three options and neither of them are good.

A: Fatshark really thought this was a good system.

B: Fatshark pushed this system out because they had to rush and blend it together in a couple weeks.

C: They know exactly what they’re doing. Deliberately turning the game into an RNG grindfest to try and hook gamers with addictions.

Stupidity, incompetence or malevolence.
Maybe all three…

[freqlectic]

@Ashreon

380 weapons are not necessarily difficult to get, roughly one shows up on a daily basis, if you’re a casual player being able to check the store two to three times a day, you should see one roughly every 12 days/8days, seeing a specific weapon at 380 will on average take you about a year assuming you’re a casual.

I’ve never seen a 380. Don’t think I’ve seen more than one 170+. I have spent time levelling three characters to 30, but I’ve seen at least 30 shop inventories while using level 30 characters.

@AsukasHeadphones

You’re absolutely right. I’ve been letting this game live in my head rent free. Will be quitting these forums too. Good luck and have fun.

Good luck. My gut feeling told me both to refund the game last day of beta (expecting this situation) and to not get engaged in the forum again. I should get better at listening to my gut…

@Ashreon

We know they cap at 80%, because max base rating is 380, the only way to get above 380 base rating is by consecrating it and the consecration bugging out increasing the base rating (but not awarding more stats).

I’ve seen at elast one example of a weapon with a total modifier rating of 184 , bugged and showing 185. The 184 score is likely a bug as well though…

[Exterium]

These chances are worse than gacha games, jesus.

[Aetrion]

The ability to slowly upgrade your stat bars over time would single handedly solve the item problem in this game.

The thing that kills it is the absurdly low chance of getting a 380 base item. If you could simply start with any item and slowly up its bar stats the crafting system wouldn’t be broken.

[nldixon]

D. Despite their claims, they originally had every intention of introducing non-cosmetics to the shop, and the system was intentionally designed this way.

I recall seeing a quote somewhere where someone asked if there were plans to add other stuff to the shop and the response was “we don’t have plans to add anything other than cosmetics at this time”. Paraphrasing, but that was the gist. I could be remembering wrong, however.

[Ashreon]

I don’t get why you keep trying to defend a system such as this. It doesn’t matter if it is just 0.3%. Why aren’t people allowed get these weapons?
We’re not talking about, a very low chance… We’re talking about hundreds of years for us to be SURE that we see the 380 weapon we want, checking the store 24/7 every single day until well into the next century.

And you sit and argue whether that really matters? Yes that matter. It’ll take you 3 decades just to get the right 360-369 assuming you only play 2-3hrs a day and without worrying about a stat weight. This is why this matters, and you’ve still not gotten it through you head.

The Devs have already confirmed that they are aware that the current system is worse than a national lottery (you know those with numbers from 0 - 99 and you need to get what 12 right) that to compare this to a national lottery is an understatement. So just, stop. No one is saying it shouldn’t be an effort to get 380 weapons, but it should be an effort by playing and dedication. Not by sheer arbitrary chance. Heck, most of us would be happy if we could just get a 360+ specific weapon with a decent spread of stats, perks and blessing, but we can’t.
Thankfully, the Devs recognize this and will look into options to fix the current situation once crafting has been fully released.

[Ashreon]

I’ve played 303hrs, not that hours played matters one bit.

I have linked the spreadsheet in the top, albeit I believe that the 370-379 range is currently off by about 0.8% chance to drop.

The rest will give you a very precise idea how the game awards weapons. It does so by a distribution curve or at least what has ended up as a distribution curve. It will give most weapons between 320-339.

If you have gotten an Evis and Flamer with the stats you want, you’ve literally beaten the odds of several national lotteries combined and I am probably still understating how lucky you have been. This is how rare the Devs know they are. This is how rare I know they are… So, grats mate!

[Exterium]

To be fair, that “at this time” is just a common PR “tagline” which doesn’t really mean anything, it’s there just to not set anything in stone.