Not as hard as Hedge made it to be. There is a good way to manage expectations which requires tact, sublety, and understanding; and then there is the Hedge way, which is demeaning and gaslighting your customer base.
We shouldn’t forget undocumented changes to posts, ‘immeasurably complex’, ‘get friends’, ‘this game isn’t CoD and was never intended to be CoD’.
Immeasurably complex was a very, very nice meme. I don’t know how they let that guy still work there, but I hope he actually had some “parental talk” after that…
Not interested in this either but all I have to say about it is I think the fact that we can barely go a single thread without someone talking about problems with loot/crafting is pretty good evidence that it needs some big changes. I’m, at best, okay with it since the last update but I generally don’t play on high enough difficulties that gear quality matters that much. Network problems are the main thing keeping me away from the game right now.
I’d like to give FS the benefit of the doubt that they’re working on a big overhaul to all of these undercooked systems, and if they’re doing that it’s probably not something anybody should reasonably expect only a few months after release, but I’m fully in “I’ll believe it when I see it” mode and not terribly optimistic.
Most frustrating thing, and the thing that is obviously driving all of the negativity here, is that nobody outside of FS knows how bad the situation really is, what’s going on with their priorities, or what they want to do with these undercooked systems, and FS isn’t telling.
Yeah, I’d love to see FS commenting on this topic, on the direction they are heading in. At least the confirmation that they’ll use or not use endless progression as a direction would bring some rest to the forums after a week or so. I find it unlikely tho, I’m not even sure it’s a good idea to come out and say something on their part.
People will keep polluting all threads with this stuff until FS goes strongly yes or no. Some of the most prominent posters on this topic doesn’t play the game for a while now.
Pretty sure there’s some nepotism happening with them, since they are still working there. They closed a thread that was an exasperated ‘At least spellcheck people’ in general discussions that they closed for being in the wrong section. As though general frustration isn’t a general topic.
On one hand, I agree, but on the other, the post looked exactly like something you would put in the bugs category with some strong wording.
I wouldn’t cry censorship seeing that they (the mods) let the same offtopic stuff be inserted into every thread without moving them or giving some cleanness to the forum (that they should do actually, but they don’t since they either can’t be bothered to clean up the amount of stuff or fear the obvious backlash that would come if they did).
It might be my bias, but having someone who has shown time and time again pure contempt towards the customer base being the one who shut it down just irked me to no end.
Thinking about it, it wouldn’t have irked me nearly as much if Aqshy or Catfish did it, just because I trust that they wouldn’t do it out of pettiness. Hedge has proven that they are petty.
Slightly less circular points would be the constant bug-or-feature guessing game we have to play, which affects things like Counterfire highlighting, Zealot’s Chastise the Wicked (maybe the third fix attempt will fix it, but if they don’t untangle the underlying spaghetti framework that can’t differentiate between ranged and melee attacks/damage it’ll only be a band-aid), rend-or-brittle, and the maps/mission selection.
Can you believe even with 16 missions available at a time, there are still times when entire zones or mission types or secondaries aren’t available?
IMO the slots/crafting system is horrible but tolerable. The problem at this point is doubtless that we’re like 5 months into a live service game and the live service part was doa and they basically finished the game as a 1.0 release in the last major release.
We need content. Classes and maps specifically. Extra enemies would help the variety too. Weapons won’t even though it normally would becauase building the damn things sucks. Admittedly ive saved up a fair few resources on my zealot so i can probably get a decent hammer to try when the new one is released. But just my zealot lmao.
I want to add one other thing to the conversation:
In product land (corporate speak for the person who decides what the devs work on) there is usually a serious interest in what the clients want and are complaining about. But there often is not a good way to ascertain where the most important fires are. PMs are supposed to collect data but in reality inflow is way higher than processing. So what happens instead is PMs develope simple heuristics like “oh man, that thread got a lot of replies/attention. That must be important” but for players themselves some things are desperately needed but not very controversial so they do not get much attention. You can’t fix everything all at once so you try to balance fixing the complaints directly with fixing the problems that might feed those problems.
Be careful with this type of argument. Just because you want A and not B does not mean that B cannot make it into the game if it is
My problems with DT are all on a design level. I just don’t understand how they could think that the current gear grind is fun and engaging.
To answer the original question: As the gameplay in Atoma primeis terrific and the gameplay aboard the Mourningstar is mobile game hell: Yes I hope people talk further - I’d love to have Mourningstar gameplay at least on an enjoyable level. I want new content - most of my friends I looked forward to playing this game with abondoned it due to the lack of content.
The F2P esque grind annoyes me so much that on the verge of abondoning the game as well.
So yes please - talk! Tell the devs what you think - the alternative is abandonment and I really wish for the game to succeed - It’s just the best 40k FPS out there!
Very good point - even amplified when some threads are flooded by over eager zealots (in the leteral sense - not the inagme class) who write in every second post the same opinion and thus increase the issue you described.
BUT FS did their part too - they did the sensible thing when there is too much random data und did a query…
And asked completely irrelevant questions that had nothing to do with the broad critique they recieved for there product - not a single question about the perception of the Tencent induced mobile hell RNG system that just is the opposite of fun.
You should not. I had a lot of confidence that they understood once the open letter was published, but the dev blog that followed proved me completely wrong (and made me regret asking for patience when the open letter was attacked by many).
Propably true - since they said they‘d release no new content until the core systems are in a state the community deserves, the release of new weapons demonstrates they obviously believe the current F2P mechanics in an P2P game are what the community deserves…
Don’t get me wrong - I don’t think new content and improvements are exclusive against each other - I just try to deduct intention from what FS has been saying.
I doubt it. After Winds of MAgic released for Vermintide 2 they explicitly stated that they wouldn’t do anything like replacing the VT2 adventure mode crafting with the Athanor system, simply because they felt like they couldn’t swap out the system that was in place. I had all my reds and still wanted the Athanor system, yet I agree and fully understand why they felt that way. I think we have the same situation here. If they were to rip out this RNG-infested system and replace it with something sane, the backlash would be immense from everyone who has spent loads of hours engaging in the system.
What I do belieive, at best, is that they will keep moving in a more sane direction using baby steps (small steps while swaying left and right). I wouldn’t be surprised if we, after 1 year or more, end up with a drop range for “modifier stats” of something like 360 - 380 and an option to unlock the 2nd perk and the 2nd blessing. I don’t think it will be more than that and it will most likely take the longest of times to get to that place. The only alternative, in my min, is if they change their mind about introducing an equivalent to red weapons AND also remove the perk/blessing locks.
I’d dare say that they’re not quite at 1.0 yet. The only feature they announced would be delayed was crafting , but in reality there are quite a few things they either didn’t deliver on at all or where they delivered a way lesser version of what was promised.
The most obvious thing would be the archetype/class situation where they expressed how it would indeed be less choices to begin with (4 archetypes, 1 class each), but that the build-depth would compensate for it. If that was true it would’ve been fine, in my opinion, to roll out a new class every 3 months and start with only 4 choices. In reality, however,they pretty much copy-pasted the builds from VT2 and by doing that I’d say that they severly underdelivered in terms of class and/or build choices.
Similar things can be said about other parts of the game, where the current state of things blatantly differs from what was advertised, and I can’t really call it a full release until they’ve reached that point. Right now It’s more like we’ve gone from 0.7 at release to 0.8 when the crafting was implemented (that’s not even bringing up how they also delivered an entirely different progression design than what they promised).
No, no, I’m definitively not thinking that one excludes the other - I was just commenting on Ready2Snap’s optimism that there is some kind of big overhaul of the systems almost everyone complains about.
I mean… the dev blog after the open letter clearly explained what they decided to do and this is what we got.
I think that there would be some, but not as much as you’d think. There are very few people who are happy with the current system, and, from the discussions I’ve been seeing in various places, I think even most of those who sunk an enormous amount of time into the system would be ok with it being scrapped for something a bit more respectable of our time.
Yeh the current system needs to go. I’ve put in a lot of hours and even though I would be a bit annoyed at the wasted time I would be more happy that we can actually make a decent weapon.
The glacial pace these guys work does not make me feel very optimistic… If something else comes along I will probably abandon the game as a failed venture. For the moment though I am still running the same missions 
and trying to craft a good gun I guess.
These two threads have made me think about that a bit though I have to admit.
I mean unless catfish worded it poorly, it sounded like only the new variant will have that fix, and imo that is still a bad way to apply requested changes to a weapon.
I agree, I also would love this game to succeed as a big fan of 40k, especially when the gore and gameplay is good. Cutting people in half with an Eviscerator is a dream come true for me. I guess I just feel a bit defeated atm, the slow pace of development, lack of maps, character build depth, crafting etc etc has me pessimistic. Hopefully the game lives long enough to realize it’s potential.
I mean past a point not really?
A lot of the threads pointing out the bad stuff has been covered (rng on crafting, rng on mission selection, no bots, no sp games, siloing sucks, Malk’s is a tossup, Psyker getting continually boned by the item store, Psyker + Ogryn class balance)
Coming up with new ideas feels kind of pointless since speed of implementation would be that if glacial drift and somewhat conflict with the current systems. As an example I would love a last stand mode however making it a random mission takes a normal mission off the board which alienates people not into a last stand mode and having it be its own mode technically splits an already small player-base.
It’s very much a case where the house was built on a bad foundation in the first place and ripping that up takes a stupid amount of time and effort where continuing to build on top of it increases the risk of it caving in on itself.
Apart from that it’s mostly circular logic nerf threads which mostly get put up because someone is salty that other people are doing well with something they dislike.