I think Bolter was a B-tier weapon before the survivalist nerf with one specific hybrid build, now it’s C-tier unless you really just use it to burst bosses on Monstrous Specialists (ammo buff didn’t do much for it on Vet). Bulwark shields not opening to it (only if you burst it) was just… really unwarranted. Even tho I know it was a change not targeted at Bolter.
Full toughness restore to you, with an additional option to pick up downed allies and giving 50 Toughness to allies, just no longer exceed it, if you remove the Gold Toughness.
Removing the Gold Toughness and reducing the Stagger force of VoC, as well as removing Full Toughness gain on Stealth would not make either Ability weak or the weakest in the game.
VoC would still be a full toughness restore with the option to restore 50 points of toughness to allies and picking up downed enemies.. and removing Toughness restore from Stealth would still give up to 36 seconds of reduced threat with an aggro dump and the ability to suppress enemies on existing Stealth.
Personally i’d give the Toughness restore from Stealth to the Executioner’s Stance and maybe consider giving VoC a slight Stamina restore to allies when you pick the ally Talent, to reinforce the “To me” type of “Roleplay” where the Veteran can restore toughness and stamina to people.. maybe reset their dodge limit? Feel like there are better ways to deal with this here than Golden Toughness and the series of immunities that come with it.
Yet another sidebar… why do we need another sidebar? The Bolter is in a fine place. If i would change one thing, then it would be a blessing to reduce the kickback to make it more useful as a Sniping weapon. But then again this could be fixed with the new Itemisation update, where, so my understanding, we get new Weapon Marks… and giving a “Stalker” Bolter would likely fix the issue.
The reason i feel fewer people use the Bolter is that the Bastion Shield no longer can be broken.
Oh, wow. Okay.
I’m not sure what you are smoking exactly, but I see no reason to absolutely demolishing VoC and nerf Infiltrate (it isn’t even a strong ability). It’s especially no reason to do it to just give the big L to some bad players you see, seesh.
I’m out.
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Back on topic, I also feel liike a sword and shield combo would be a better fit for the Zealot as they’re more melee oriented - Not to mention that they even have Crusader cosmetics, even if their quality is closer to “We have Crusader at Home” level.
That said, Veterans charging in with Supression Shields would be really cool. Particularly if by equipping it, Veterans would be able to swab from the Shield and a one-handed melee to one-handed ranged like Laspistols and Autopistols with the Shield still in play. Granted a system like that might be a difficult fit for a game like Darktide, to say nothing about balancing - Seems like it’d be hard to pull off in such a way that running Shields with Pistols wouldn’t be too strong while simultaneously making that option a viable counter to running things like Boltguns and Plasma guns.
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Crusader aren’t part of the IG
Not sure what all is being discussed in this confusing mess but Vent & Creeping Flames always come in a package. The latter needs 85%+ peril for 6-stack SB, and that’s the minimum to burn all horde & snipers. Not to mention Warp Rider, Warp Nexus etc. which means a properly played psyker will always be balancing at high peril.
Between that and what staves, Force Swords, blitzes, even Kinetic Deflection can do as long as you have peril, you generally can’t get swamped as long as you have peril available. Yes, Force Sword pushes are fantastic for recovering & buying time, but it’s passive, slow, and only works against most non-elites. It’s supposed to be more of a last resort, where simply overpowering & killing the enemy if you can is far better.
But you don’t have to be swamped to use Vent. It’s great for clearing that horde behind while you keep blasting the priorities up front. Its stagger alone of stacked with your staff is great utility. It’s insane for Soulblaze synergies. With stuff like Psykinetic’s Aura & Warp Siphon it can be front-loaded even at sub-85% peril if you know your next blast is getting a bunch of special+ kills anyway (why? bc that stagger is what buys you the time to line up the shots and get your momentum on, and even <6 SB won’t matter when Perilous Combustion comes on top).
Point is Vent has many and frequent uses, but no matter how you use it you should virtually always be at 50-100% peril. Vent & Quietude in practice means every Vent gives you that toughness, and especially if you’re swamped.
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any class can do hybrid… as this is like very important for darktide as it has hybrid combat…
it is literally marketed towards that go play vermintide if you want your almost melee only gameplay you peasent!
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A veteran can be good at melee. A zealot is just bad at ranged weapon, no matter you try to make it hybrid.
You can play a strong melee veteran, you will never play a strong ranged zealot.
not with that attitude!
No one is currently part of the IG.
AiB + IJ works wonders. My Brauto with no damage mods does 400k dmg on average/match which is more than what ranged specialized Vets I run into do.
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I will believe you on words, cause I know that you’re like me and test things.
Now, I must test the ranged zealot lol 
(My last test, Combat axe without BM… works incredible.)
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I’m on secondment. Secondment from prison.
lmao get out of my view you get bonus ranged dmg at 8 m making shotguns a lot of fun.
Your lack of knowledge about using guns in this game shows.
Once a Guardsman always a Guardsman.
I use also the shotgun on zealot. And I have no problem at saying I can be wrong. Must test what Nish pointed.
I admit I was a little excessive by saying “bad”. But, you have 25% less ammo than a bullgryn or a veteran and you deal a lot less damages than a veteran (again need to test what Nish pointed).
With a veteran, and this I have tested intensely, you are pretty close to the DPS of the zealot if you pick right talents and blessings.
Not before zealot gets a crusader’s sword and shield.
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how do you have 25% less ammo? which sane human takes the ammo thingy stockpile utterly useless for most classes unless it’s in the way you want to choose lmao. You don’t have any clue about this game and it shows.
A true good zealot does 700k dmg melee only (some specials) take rashad + revolver
A mixed combat vet does 700 k with 65% melee and 35% ranged. Take Mk6 PS + Plasma
A only melee vet is essentialy just a worse zealot as being immortal is the most “broken” ability in this game let alone wound zealot is strong af.
yea… I see the kind of player you are.
Using OP weapons and “meta” builds and thinking this is the only way to play the game.
You don’t have a clue about the game. You would like to know why? Cause you know only playing with OP weapons. So you don’t test, you don’t even try what the game has to offer. So your input is as valuable as is the input of my son on the game (he is 8 years old). But still, I would listen my son cause, at least, he doesn’t try to insult me.
You think I’ve never tested Rashad? You know I was the guy that asked a fix for the Rashad combat axe? I was using it when you had not even the idea to even try it.
Did you understand what I say? no, surely not. You just read what you wanted.
Considering the DPS you can deal (with just few talents) on the veteran with a melee weapon, while AT SAME TIME, dealing insane ranged damages, the veteran is, in term of power, above the zealot. But still a zealot is far above the veteran in term of survavibility (and I’ve written it).
This is far from my best game… I admit, I was a little irritated by your post. This is NOT a build I use. This was just to show that you can do a lot of damages with a melee weapon on a veteran. And just that (i did not even pick the right curios).
Also this is done with a antax combat axe without brutal momentum (yes, you can).
See? I did more melee damages than the zealot. Auric high int.
Oh and yes I died one time cause of me, i died a second time cause I tried to help and the guy has let me alone in middle of enemies (I must try to adapt and stop trying to play as a team, I promise I will try one day).
Oh, and I took time to collect plasteel… sorry, I have maybe lost a little of damages I could have dealt… This is just something I usually do, so I do not even think before going for a chest… too many games collecting materials.
Edit: I have forgotten to add something really important. I would never claim that I own the truth. I am here to exchange and discuss around darktide. I can be convinced sometimes by the arguments of others. I can disagree also sometimes. At the end, it does not matter. This a a space of discussions.
Let’s say it, your arguments, or the lack of, have not convinced me. Especially when I see that you want playing with all most OP weapons of the game (at least you know them, that’s sure). All weapons that deserve, strong or slight, nerfs.
And yes the combat axe I used here (to show you the kind of amount of damages we can do with a melee weapon on a veteran) is also too strong. And, or several weapons need a buff, or this weapon needs a nerf. And yes, I did this amount of DPS without brutal momentum on my combat axe.
True, they are Adeptus Ministorum, which Zealot fits into, a Zealot fits that part (as Vets are from IG) a Zealot having a Crusader Shield and Power Sword would give the chance for the Zealot to have a Power Sword, offer a new play style using the shield.