I think it’s a pretty easy thing to say and throw out but at the same time, I’ve been inviting Ogryns to my H40 runs and my experience is absolutely not that all of them are good lol. I’d say it’s like 70:30 anchor:good.
I think it is far more fair to say that a good ogryn carries harder than other classes, which would explain the winrate diff despite this.
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Yes, I’d love to have all winrates for classes across all modes to be made public, so everyone knows what we’re talking about. It’d be very helpful.
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That number in a vacuum means nothing though.
It just states that people who have the balls and skill to take Ogryn into H40 are on top of their game.
If you would force one class per slot and have people play random classes I would bet a good amount the Ogryn winrate would plummet in comparison with other classes.
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I dont think a pure winrate is a very good comparison.
the people who bring ogryn into havoc are competent enough to make it work.
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The magnifier effect is a rampant disease at FS.
They miss the big picture by focusing on one aspect of the game/stats/problem…
Regardless of the validity or variables effecting the ogryn win rate, at the end of the day I still get to reduce RSI by taking a bubble psyker over an ogryn in Havoc 40. 
I’ll enjoy playing ogryn more in lower diffs though.
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I’m not seeing anything BIG about what you listed at all really.
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I have the opposite experience.
I actively avoided ogryn players unless I suspected they’d be insanely good and the two I let in always were. Obviously this is a really bad example since the sample size is maybe 4 total matches from 2 different players.
Yeah, the people that dedicate to ogryn to that degree, need to be insanely good to make up for his shortcomings.
You’re right, it’s not and the survivorship bias graph is a nice touch. 
I wish we had access to that data because there is more than one conclusion that can be drawn from one set of data. It’s just important to remember that data isn’t everything.
Yes ogryn got better and it does make sense to say that we should wait for the rework to come out to get a more accurate picture than just theory crafting but it’s also rather obvious that ogryn did not get what he needed to compete in a non-controlled environment.
There comes a point after which you’ve played a game enough to be able to tell how effective some changes are without having to try them first.
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Tl;Dr: You can increase winrates without actually fixing ogryns issues.
I also need to add that this way of looking at it only works if you have a baseline to compare your new data to AND the new results get worse. If they stay the same or get better, there’s more than one explenation for that and it doesn’t have to be attributed to the changes. And even if you could attribute the explenation to the changes, that doesn’t mean the changes where what ogryn needed.
The assumptions are that the playtesters don’t get worse at the game, that the playtesters where the same, the ogryn changes are numerical improvements and that the changes are not toolkit improvements.
Ideally, you have playtesters that are competent and knowledgeable. Going back to the idea that ogryn playtesters are good enough to make him work, if they could make the old skilltree work and this new one doesn’t make him worse but also doesn’t fix any of the issues he had, those same players can make the new version work too as the continued existance of his old problems wouldn’t effect their results.
I’m saying that ogryn has problems you need to work around. The playtesters for ogryn know how to play around them. The new tree doesn’t change anything about those problems. The data you get from this should show an increase in winrates as it’s an improvement over the old skilltree. The increased winrates do not have to suggest that ogryns problems where fixed.
All that being said; this is entirely speculation on my part and mostly theoretical but it does make sense that you can increase winrates without fixing issues.
I could also be totally wrong since “the data suggests” could mean anything and has already taken all of what I outlined into account. I wouldn’t know
And now I’ve come around again to “I’d like to see the data so I’d know what I’m talking about”.
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@FatsharkStrawHat Any chance we could see some metrics in a future blog post?
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Made this its own thread but it’s actual data and belongs here
I think people mostly overreact to the light em up rebalance because they liked how achlys twin stubber could melt bosses. We lose a gimmick that prevents every other weapon from ever being good, and instead we gain every other weapon getting better. It’s a good change I think
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