Now that the new update is out, how does everyone feel about the new Ogryn rework? Love it, hate it?
@OchulOgryn are you satisfied ?Fatshark, could you please save Ogryn? I beg you
The perk where you can move at normal speed whilst charging a heavy is god emperors gift to man
I have only played Ogryn for a long time now and loved the big guy but now I really love the big guy.
It honestly feels great. Not sure if they have changed anything to do with responsiveness but he feels less clunky now.
I’ve not had a chance to try it beyond a couple of missions but it feels like perhaps the risk reward is higher, which I like. Perhaps it’s just the way my tree is configured but he feels more powerful but when things go south they go south a bit quicker, which is the risk reward I wanted tbh.
New Ogryn seems to reward skill level better than before by removing many of the frustrations.
Ogryn actually feels like a strong melee character now, as he should be. Pickaxe became a monster, and Taunt is now actually useful. Ironically buffing his melee aura to effect all melee attacks is also a buff to Zealot and other melee favoring builds.
Haven’t gotten to play yet, but I’m going to be real, I’m really starting to absolutely loathe expansive talent trees, and fully believe they were a mistake for Darktide. I think we could crunch the 30 talent nodes down to the old 5-6 talent choices without missing much in the way of build nuance, and probably have much better informed builds by typical players.
Overall looks like there’s some good stuff and significant performance increases for Ogryn, but trying to sit down with the talents, understand how they flow, and how they interact and function as a coherent whole, is really a nightmare, and some of the talent placement (e.g. coherency buffs being on opposite sides of the tree) is appalling. There’s lots of illusion of choice, but I don’t see how the overwhelmingly vast majority of players could ever really make sense of much nuance in these trees without extensive community engagement and research, and to be blunt, over the last 18 months or so, most just seem to copy-paste something they saw online.
Definitely feels less like a gimped zealot and more like an actually playable character. Getting rid of the heavy attack requirments on the brawler tree is a huge buff to some of the faster ogryn weapons like cleaver and makes them way more enjoyable. Lucky bullet is still kind of a meme
Played around with it as much as I could before i had to return to work.
So much needs to be tested that i don’t have the time for, but I had fun.
Grenadier Gauntlet won this update, I really can’t imagine how anyone could disagree, it’s so responsive and strong, now.
Love the rippers
Napalm Rumbler is great
Club feels odd? I didn’t feel like it has much cleave, but the TTK against minor elites is good. Also the slap!
No Stopping Me is soooo much better than what I’ve seen/heard from people. I don’t get why it’s being wrote off, movement is king and being able to bulldoze something running away from you is great.
Being allowed to light attack is heavenly. I have half of my moveset back! I whap things and they die instead of getting back up as if they weren’t whapped by 5 tons of dude.
Best of all, I get into a match and I don’t see 4 pickaxe ogryns. I still see picks and they’re still great, but they aren’t required anymore. I see other ogryns using different weapons and not being relentlessly punished for it by the game. Love it.
I don’t agree that there’s an illusion of choice. Niche stuff all over, like Surety Of Arms, lets people who want to fiddle endlessly with the trees have their fun. And for people who don’t care, they can just plug in a build. Sounds like it works perfectly.
I’d love to see some stats on how much time players spend geeking out on the talents page. I know I spend a crazy amount of time in there, and I love it. Beats the hell out of the old system, and feels like I’m making my own character more than just playing dress up.
Yes there’s nice stuff all over, but in most cases you’re not going to try and gather stuff super far apart either and there’s still a fair number of clear “do” and “don’t” take stuff, and nodes that exist just as “tax” nodes.
More fundamentally, how much of this time is spent in considered contemplation of choice, and how much is spent trying to understand what talents actually do and how they interact?
For myself and most people I play with, the latter is what people spend the most time on, which isn’t really adding value. In my experience it’s really only generally a single node or two that people spend a lot of time deeply considering, the rest of the time it’s “wait, what does this actually do? How does this affect X/Y/Z?”
There’s ways you could dramatically simplify that build process without the tree and still allow pretty much the same builds.
Thinking through the build space (the interactions and synergies and how to stretch out and weight things to get everything I want) IS the fun for me. And if it’s not for someone else, there are always builds to copy as you mentioned.
On some level I get that, but Darktide attracted me as a 40k L4D-esque game, not as an RPG with more talent interactions than many actual RPG’s like old school Fallout, and to me that’s playing with the game, not playing the game.
I have the same issue with games like D&D, where many hours end up getting spent theorycrafting characters instead of actually…playing, and where tons of character sheet stuff is ultimately superfluous remnants of otherwise long dead game design (e.g. that “18” in Strength doesn’t actually mean squat, that number isn’t actually used anywhere for anything, it should just be “+4STR”). This also results in D&D (as a game) being a better experience when it’s done as a computer game (like BG3) where the machine handles all the back end tracking of abilities and math, and you can get through a combat encounter of 5 rounds in minutes instead of taking an hour at a table and you don’t have people constantly forgetting Feat interactions or dice bonuses.
More to the point, with Darktide, most of the talent interactions aren’t actually things that the mechanics are clearly explained for, they’re things players have to go out and research on their own outside the game, which again, for an L4D-esque horde shooter that wasn’t supposed to be a deep RPG, feels like a miss.
Ok then don’t interact with the build system. Have no build at all or get a build from the internet. The fact that it’s possible to meaningfully engage with the build system isn’t a bad thing, and it’s OK if it’s only there for people who are into min-maxing.
The ultimate point really is that largely the same outcomes to players could have been achieved in a far more simplified package that would have required a lot less “outside” and 3rd party study on the part of players, and investing lot of dev time and effort into a system for players to theorycraft with an in L4D game probably isn’t adding tons of value to the core concept. It’s a system that’s dramatically overcomplicated for the genre it occupies, and even for most actual in-depth RPGs, and that has negative impacts for both for players (in getting them to understand and coherently engage with talents) and for balance. There’s a reason we don’t see such a system with other 4 person coop shooters despite them often having extensive mechanics/weapons/abilities for players.
I was a bit sceptical at first but I’m very satisfied with the Ogryn rework. It finally feels like I’m actually playing a big strong guy.
The same outcome wouldn’t have been reached because the complexity is exactly what makes it possible for people like me to spend hours playing around with buildcrafting. It’s part of the fun for me. A big part actually.
And for anyone who doesn’t like it, there’s the internet…or just what my buddy does: choose a lane and plunk down those points willy nilly.
the new update finally gives me equal options, whereas before i “could” use certain weapons but felt bad not bringing the “good stuff”
karsolas benefits a lot from the cleave lower left node and being able to sprint charging heavies feels amazingly immersive when getting into the thick of it.
likewise the balance of melee/ranged:
melee for flak/maniac
ranged for carapace/unyielding
has a lot more pairings now.
krourk IV and grenade gauntlet nets the same efficiency as karsolas/rumbler and offers a faster and different pacing altogether.
combos such as heavy/punch/light now actually do the necessary damage and take out crushers/bulwarks while feeling fresh and novel.
add the quality of life like tiny chicken legged enemies not stopping 2 tons of ogryn in his tracks, trappers&charge not ending in default disaster
and ogryn is in a real good place now 
Always liked me cleavers and pokers… now me cleavers and pokers are viable on higher diffs and fun as hell. New ogryn is good ogryn.
Middle tree feels the same, heavy hitter fantastic, overall i like new tree, how talents placed, i no longer need take anything useless, like impact or coherency, love new rock talent and in general rock feels much better, can’t say the same about other two, box only good in new game mode, i mean fantastic there with grenade buffs, i wish biggest box of grenades was additional node for it, tho i don’t know how to balance it against nuke, because it would become obsolete, it kinda already is.
Taunt is better but not by much, charge still best ability and even better than before.
But biggest plus is without a doubt ability to push enemies with dodge, as ogryn i got stuck in way more than any other class.
Light attacks and some weapons now totally viable, clubs and cleavers much better weapons now, especially cleavers.
Overall left heavy hitter tree is great, it even offers variety of skills to choose, middle tree is meh as it was, didn’t test gun ogryn yet.
Hello!
I personally really love this patch.
Of course, there are still some things that could be improved, but the fact that you made adjustments so quickly—and most of all, that playing Ogryn is fun now—makes me very satisfied.
I really hope Zealot and Veteran get their turn next too! 
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