I did say I was convinced this mod shouldn’t be allowed in my last reply, but this kind of argument isn’t at all compelling:
An aimbot is very different, again, I wouldn’t conflate ESP cheats with aimbots and the like. An aimbot trivializes the game. Knowing where enemies are can in situations where gas is meant to obscure things, or in lights out, but it’s definately nowhere near as bad as an aim bot.
I think there must be a solution is to rework the mod framework to restrict mods which provide information the player shouldn’t have access to. I don’t know anything about the modding SDK, but I’d imagine it shouldn’t mean ending all mods.
Yup, that’s why it doesn’t interfere with other players. They don’t know if someone is using. But if they knew is real question and would be negative reaction. They definitely wouldn’t see as normal.
Probably because since over 2 years ago there is another mod that is full ESP of whole map and even including ones that show pre-spawned green stims, medkits etc beyond FoundYa mod range.
That mod hosted on other websites has been referenced in a very discrete manner on reddit, discord and even in comments for other mods on nexus mods.
Safe to assume even if the stats don’t show the ZIP file probably passed around leading to thousands in possession.
I think best a solution is put in place before something becomes a bigger problem, even if it isn’t right now. Prevention than cure kind of thing.
Definitely this. If run through a scenario. You have multiple Crushers in close range, you and team chipping away. Now you know which ones to prioritise to thin their numbers quicker, go for the weakened ones first. It’s almost like having an icon on each one with a number showing breakpoints remaining.
You have the ability to know efficient order of engagement.
I think you’re probably right, ESP cheats existed for so long that people don’t even need this one, and in that sense, it’s possibly already done damage to the way Fatshark goes about balancing the game.
Its a more extreme version, but you could argue its not going to make someone win in H40. It doesnt matter how well you aim if you suck at timing, positioning and melee.
Whether or not its a PvE game, we can all agree its cheating? It shouldnt even need to be said that most people dont want to play with cheaters in any form, PvE or not.
That could be something. Maybe only allow that information in private lobbies and give those lobbies the modded tag?.. I mean if we had a lobby search like we should
Aimbot is double edge sword. It can in some situations make things worse.
Scenarios
There is an enemy in front of Daemonhost. You don’t want shot passthrough to hit Daemonhost, so you want to target feet, arm so the shot passes away elsewhere. But the aimbot pulls aim to headshot then passthrough shot aggros daemonhost.
Bulwark at higher elevation up the stairs, so head is covered. Again trying to flank it’s shield, fire at his feet, arm exposed but it pulls your aim to shield.
Ranged enemies - Sometimes their arms stick out even when torso, head in cover. End up pulling aim to fire at cover when you want to fire at their arm.
Barrel next to cluster of enemies. Aimbot doesn’t know a barrel is an enemy it pulls to an individual enemy next to it, losing you good opportunity.
What you gain in precision shooting you lose in tactical use where you purposely don’t want to aim at weakspot.
I’m starting to lose count on this Schrodinger’s cat Cheat perplexing excuse. I may not know if someone is using an aimbot either but it still affects me and interferes with my game.
Yes, this is painfully obvious to everyone including the cheaters themselves or those unable to process any extra info (skill issue). Once again the first reply to someone asking why HP bars mod wasn’t sanctioned for VT2 included this obvious reason; at this point put a floating number indicator on top of the mobs indicating the order to hit them in.
No one would argue that removing fog of war in an RTS doesn’t constitute cheating. Unless you’re building a Spy Satellite
And “aim bot” is a remarkably low bar for what’s considered acceptable and I think we can do better.
The fact that it’s better than a specific ability for certain classes makes it more egregious imo. If you think about it that it’s +X perk points for Vet/Arbi then how can that be ok? Or the same abilities, but with the cooldown/activation removed? Matter of fact Psyker too, in a way.
I know I’ve pulled your quote, but these are general comments!
I just explained how it does though. Vet doesn’t give anyhting but the info and highlights to teammates with that talent. If the vet plays with people who use wallhacks, his talent point investment that he picked for support in a co-op game is instantly worthless because they use mods to get that for free.
It’s in my opinion not ok to have a game where you can pick builds that give you or allies target highlights as a mechanic, and then allowing players to just cheat and get them without using the points on it, and without having an ally who specifically picked that talent for it.
As for the “do you notice” argument: If enough people run this, I certainly will feel discouraged from ever bringing the veteran ally target highlight because I’d feel like a dumbass for doing it. I don’t actually think Fatshark needs to strictly make these mods impossible, but I think the harder they make it for these mods to spread and be made in the first place, via limiting what’s serverside and what’s client side and/or moderating what can be uploaded to the nexus, the better. Making these cheats so rare I’ll never have to worry about teammates running them to make my talent choices obsolete is satisfactory to me, personally
We’ve discussed this. I think that cheating in a PvP game is much worse. If you’re playing a single-player RTS, then it’s still cheating sure, but you’re not ruining someone else’s game. In a PvE game, I think information cheats can be pretty benign.
But, as we’ve discussed earlier, the real issue that changed my mind is twofold, it does trivialize things like gas and lights out, but moreso, how can the devs make accurate decisions about how to balance the game in terms of visibility if people can simply see them through walls? Using mods like the health bars which give you vision of enemies through obstacles and this mod both change the way people play, and then it’s not possible to properly balance the game.
In fact, I’d go so far as to say, this could explain why they never bothered to reduce clutter and special spawns. Based on their data since the health bar mod came out a few years ago, nobody’s struggling with surprise specials if they’re seeing them through walls. Last I played, the door spawning “gotcha” crap was still happening. Though, even in Vermintide, I’ve had them spawning round a corner just as I approached. Might be a limitation of the game engine.
I think this in particular is by design. They certainly have had enough time to fix the poxburster/door interaction, for example. I think they use this as a deterrent from spawncamping enemies, which I think is good design.
In this case, isn’t bypassing this design by having a mod that shows you exactly what is behind the closed door, which is (I assume) made to mess you up if you camp it, the exact same thing as using a mod to see perfectly well in gas/lights out? You’re bypassing a mechanic that forces you to play a certain way by, well, cheating
I don’t think Fatshark is “sanctioning” anything really, rather I think they’re happy to let players go hog wild with whatever they want to do as long as as the drama level around stuff remains under a certain threshold, as evidenced by the fact that the mod policy is as open and permissive as it is.
Fatshark has all the power to break these mods on the back end, change the community mod policies, enforce actions against players, and other such tools, and are not even attempting to utilize them in the case of these sorts of mods.
If they’re choosing to do absolutely nothing about these mods existing for 3+ years after release (after making the mod tools and functionality available in the first place), and not even attempting to alter or update their mod policies or otherwise address them in any way (and are addressing the mod in question here through a backend change instead), it’s hard to see where Fatshark isn’t cool with these sorts of things.
now since even my time here in hospital is better spend than with the likes of you.