Games work cause there are rules and restrictions. Breaking rules is fun but that’s what cheating is.
That doesn’t matter how much usefull info you get about the enemies, it shouldn’t be possible, untill devs implement such features themselves. If it wasn’t designed like that, then this is how rules are.
Long time ago i was arguing that HP bars is borderline cheating. Now people are also using poxburster explosion area radius. The Overton window as is.
First it’s some finger tickle on your anus, then full lenght ramming.
Absolutely disgusting thread. Want to play with wallhacks, unlimitted ammo, and god knows what’s is there ok CAUSE IT’S PVE. Ask for FS to give you solo play and stop being a hypocrite.
The HP bars are cheating; they reveal anything that takes damage (even through walls I think) and clutter the screen, ruining visual immersion. I once tried HUD mods for an advantage, but they became a crutch, and if you don’t tweak them, they actually make it harder to see because they can add so much visual clutter.
Without tagging visuals or outlines, you have to rely on awareness; sound and detail, etc. which makes you sharper. Players who depend on these mods lose that skill, though it doesn’t bother me if they use them. Those unwilling to engage with the game’s natural cues won’t be great players anyway, and if they’re using a wallhack, then at the very least, they won’t be as oblivious as they’d otherwise be.
This is the lack of naunce I was talking about earlier. The outrage over PvE cheats lack nuance. ESP mods just make casual players more aware, while cheats like unlimited ammo or godmode actually destroy the challenge. ESP doesn’t, unless you’re in a PvP game.
I’ll add, I love the game’s natural look, sound design, music, and atmospheric feel. I do get bored of many environments looking the same rusted metal heaps with a monotone filter, but they’ve added new missions with more varied environments with time. I like the industrial decay feel. I think to properly enjoy the game’s atmosphere it’s actually better to use mods to REMOVE stuff like the red tagging light and player x-rays and the map pointers. Remove all the annoying constant radio chatter and dialogue too. Even the mission briefs are annoying to hear over and over.
The game is so much better when you have to rely on raw instinct and visuals. However, I won’t begrudge players ESP cheat mods. I just can’t imagine it’s going to ruin my experience. It really doesn’t make my investment in the game feel any less valuable. I draw the line at information though. Beyond that, we risk trivializing the challenge more than all the OP blessing/talent combos already do.
Doesn’t matter. Cheats shouldn’t be allowed because someone can’t git gut.
There are RULES. Rules don’t care you steal cause need to feed 5 children or cause your bimbo need a new diamond ring. Once you start searching for excuses people will never stop, pushing the border of “it’s just awareness” even more.
If FS can’t or don’t want to manualy control every mod, they should come out and say “we don’t want for players to know any info at all cause DT is a milsim”, or only info about players are allowed, or any info cause we are looter shooter wannabe Borderlands.
Rules for rules-sake doesn’t substitute for an argument. The reason the rule exists is to have a level playing field and preserve the integrity of the game.
This is a slippery slope argument. I’ll decide based on the mod in question, and I draw a firm line at when it goes beyond giving the player information.
I’m saying, I don’t see how any mod that gives the player information is going to significantly damage the game or the experience.
Honestly I don’t see any way for this to be settled purely off of whether it’s a cheat mod or not. I agree it’s a cheat, I just don’t see it as a threat to my enjoyment of the game, but to each his own.
In that case, I suppose Fatshark should listen to the community. Maybe someone should put up a poll and vote on it.
And when you start debating that, looking for excuses like “it’s fine cause some players are bad” you are creating breaches in that integrity.
Rules dictate how you should play the game, it’s why there is such word as “design”, there is a plan, a concept in mind behind.
The truth is you can’t measure how it can effect players’ deccision making and moment to moment gameplay with any mod that provides additional info about enemies. Is there any raw data about resources efficiency, deaths, winrate? Not rly.
So since it’s impossible to make an experiment on a whole community we are going back to the question why cheats are allowed? The argument “because i have a good faith and being optimistic it doesn’t affect” is just absurd.
If things are potentialy harmfull or illegal, even if there is no way to measure or ensure how much harm they can bring, then you don’t allow them for the sake of keeping a system safe. It’s a common sense.
Yeah, it definitely does breach the intended design, and by that logic, Fatshark probably shouldn’t allow walling. However, there’s also priorities, and to some extent the game won’t be perfect, and while this might be an issue, I don’t think it’s one that deserves their attention.
There’s also to some extent which I don’t care and it doesn’t bother me personally, and the one thing thing that people claim is that it gives players a huge unfair advantage. I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration. I don’t see how giving the player extra information is going to cause issues. It’s an advantage, but not one I can see being an issue.
I’d argue it’s neither illegal, nor harmful. It is a cheat, and not part of the intended game design, but I suspect when Fatshark setup this modding system, they had to decide to what extent they were okay with people breaching the intended game design.
Tell specifically, how does this ruin the game for you?
Save some skill points to use on other nodes for Veteran. Free points.
An Arbites lone wolf build. Can see idle crusher pack to prep sneak a volt mine before they aggro or can see their moving congo line 50m away and know the exact chokepoint to drop volt mine they will pass through ahead of team. Regen volt mines, repeat.
Lights out. Black screen, melee/shoot moving red colours in dark. Pox gas, smoke negated.
Alternate mission path for least resistance.
You can pre-aim head level or time wind up heavy melee for corners you know special will exit from incoming. Then know exact moment to action.
You can cleave snipe specials in a horde knowing exactly what is behind them
I mean Lights Out modifier alone - Surely that is huge advantage…
A lot of those perks come with other benefits. Pre-aiming and seeing through obscurantist like cover and gas is pretty cheaty, but not to the extent it really bothers me, or to any extent I can see it really interfering with other players games.
Sadly, this joke ran it’s course awhile back. If it were up to me, I wouldn’t allow these types of mods purely on the basis it seems a majority of the community has an issue with them; however, that doesn’t mean I personally find them an issue.
I think if you’re playing the game, and players on your team have ESP cheats, and you don’t really know or think about it; then it’s not going to ruin the game. It’s just going to seem like your teammates are more aware and focused. That’s in huge contrast to cheats that give them buffs and benefits beyond info which would trivialize the game.
Also, I’ll add, I just looked at the mod, it has 578 downloads, and from my experience making mods for other games, a lot of those are people downloading it multiple times for whatever reason. I don’t think many players are using this mod either.
Oh yeah, honestly, if had my way, there’d be no women in Darktide at all. I simply found it funny that so many players (probably gaming coomers) obsessed over how the women looked when the game was released. I’ll admit most of the women’s faces look pretty nasty, but I don’t really care about that either.
I guess a politician will say anything to get elected these days.
I’m gay, so this wouldn’t really hurt me specifically. Just promise to give the men some more effeminate faces so I can be represented, yeah? I always have to play as women to look like myself in video games…
By potentially affecting deccision making for my random teammates and so violating the game’s autenticity, potentially affecting metrics and further balance changes.
But
Neither you or me can proof of how it causes effect on the game or doesn’t. Your question doesn’t make sense in the first place. Cheats shouldn’t be allowed, cause of potential alone even. The fact it’s impossible to extract raw data how it can affect the game makes it even more problematic.
So why are you making your statement about a thing that never was a part of the game on a goodfaith and pure personal assumptions that it wouldn’t affect the game?
If additional info mods don’t affect the game, then why people create and use them if they don’t want to have a control over the game’s systems?
You are not followin logic, but pure subjective opinion for a specific mod wich you said yourself is a cheat. So in the end it’s just the question are cheats allowed? Yes/no. There are no “yes but” and “what if”.
For all the stark black and white “no” responses, Fatshark plainly believes there’s some wiggle room, and they intentionally left a significant amount of such in their actual mod policy rules. They’re cool with all sorts of stuff like CollectibleFinder, SeeThroughShields, Autorations, HPBars, SpideySense, DecodeHelper, Crystalline Focus, etc.
I think I’m just partly recapturing the things I liked as a 12yo boy. Big guns, swords, violence, and a grim dark atmosphere. “No girls allowed”, and all that. I guess sadly for you, that would mean excluding feminine men as well.
How specifically it affects an individual’s enjoyment of the game is always going to be subjective, whether you like the mod or not. Objectively speaking when we’ve agreed that it breaks the intended game design, it probably shouldn’t be allowed.
To be clear, I’ve never really argued with the idea the mod is a cheat, and it follows that cheats shouldn’t be allowed; however, I simply haven’t found people listing a lot of compelling reasons that it is a huge problem.
This is probably the most compelling thing I’ve seen, and even then, if I didn’t know this mod existed, I doubt I’d even realize people were using it, I’d just assume my teammate is more perceptive.
Also, my enjoyment of the game comes mainly from the sound design, atmosphere, and dynamics. I do get competitive sometimes with kills and damage. I like having the scoreboard, but it’s not enough on it’s own for me, and I find it very odd that in a co-op game, people obsess over balance. The game is clearly not balanced, and I feel serious competitive players should be driven away by much more than this mod.
Basically, as long as the game remains challenging, I wouldn’t be bothered, and ESP cheats in a PvP do cause issues, in a co-op game, the advantages are fairly shallow. I guess I’m just really surprised most people feel this threatens the stability of the game.
Really? How selfish of you. I started my cheeky little banter with you in good spirits, but I’m not really sure I want to interact anymore. My mood’s ruined, thanks.
You require it to be spelled out for you why cheating is bad? I’m sorry, but if the arguments in this Thread aren’t compelling enough for you, nothing will EVER be.
I’m having some trouble understanding how negating pox gas blind effect entirely isn’t considered a cheat in some people’s eyes. Also one overlooked reason cheats in PvE co op games are bad because they affect the long term balancing decisions of the devs. I personally dont want the game balanced around people using health bar and seeing through walls and the like.
It is in many eyes, curiously that seems to kinda exclude one of the FS’s dev eyes based on their now infamous reply to that mod specifically in the modder’s Discord.
“Cheating is bad” is like one of those redditisms. Obviously, but the extent to which it’s an issue, and to which it effects the game will likely determine whether it gets fixed.
I mean, I can’t seriously ban women and homosexuals from the game, and I wouldn’t do that. All jokes aside, I’m just stating my personal preferences. I don’t enjoy female soldiers or feminine men in a grim dark war game.
This is something I hadn’t really considered. I suppose if players are gaining even a small advantage, and it’s a large enough chunk of players; one way or another, the game is going to get balanced around that.
I think I am convinced. Even if it isn’t a huge issue now, @hrupo and @Headhunter made some pretty compelling points. Between the modifiers like light’s out, and gas obscurations, this can be a pretty huge advantage in specific scenarios, but the real danger would be that Fatshark by ignoring this mod might be getting skewed data on how the game is played.
Getting ESP advantages could make the game potentially a lot worse for me since I hate an abundance of UI. Say for example, Fatshark ignores the mod, but notices a significant chunk of players have no issue with odd speical spawns behind walls or doors, they might never fix that issue, because it’s not an issue if you can see through walls. There’s no way for Fatshark to see that’s why many players aren’t having an issue, but now if you don’t use the mod, you’re the one being disadvantaged, and there’s no incentive to make the standard game visuals distinct and clear for players who don’t use GUI mods.
So, I wouldn’t say I’m thoroughly convinced, as the mod only has about 580 downloads, but I can definitely see more than a few scenarios in which it could cause greater issues down the road. It’s just another thing that reduces the incentive for the developers to have clear and distinct visuals.
It does something a talent point does but permanently for any number of specials etc. You are right it doesnt give other bonuses, but it literally does one thing a skill point does but better. It devalues talent point investment.
This is admitting its a boon.
So does an aimbot, which is considered cheating.
And thats fine, just dont pretend its not giving an advantage when it does.
Anyone acting like having superior information isnt an advantage are kidding themselves.
They are the same thing!
With all due respect, thats not how you have been portraying it in these last few replies.
Honestly, I dont know the solution. I dont want anti-cheat. I want mods. I dont want a separate modded lobby.
Maybe a mod that actually shows the mods someone has? One that lets you not play with people with cheats. idk if thats possible or secure.