86.94% of player base want Scoreboard in the game

I am. It’s a ridiculously overstated problem compared to what you actually see in game. I don’t care what a vocal minority makes noise about in the forum if it is not borne out in game - which it is not. And it wasn’t in VT2 either.

Thank goodness we have the moral censors to come to our rescue; our only defence against this tidal wave of targeted harassment we’re seeing in the majority of games, tied specifically to the scoreboard mod. Oh wait, that’s not reality.

Literally nothing to do with scoreboards, which come up at the end of the game, where the group is disbanded anyway. Divorced from reality.

Humans often interpret information poorly, and with bias. Good luck solving that. If your conclusion is “having information at all that is the problem” then I can only marvel your scorched earth approach to trying to arbitrate the behaviour of everyone else by censoring their experience. A spectacular conceit.

I don’t know, in a world you just made up? Because I never said that. I would disagree with anyone that did. Though there is a decent case to be made from a design perspective that post-game feedback is part of the core gameplay loop. Of course there are more glaring issues to deal with first.

Gameplay feedback is important, for reasons I have already stated, and which are intuitively obvious to most people. Your distastefully arrogant disregard for how other people enjoy the game in a perfectly reasonable and constructive way is quite telling.

I can only assume the irony with which you make this sort of remark - whilst in the same breath claiming your interest is in decreasing toxic behaviour - is lost on you.


It was an issue in VT2. You had the green circle chasers, you had people leaving when they saw an Ironbreaker with a shield, and you had people actively griefing someone who didn’t have their chosen setups for another class. Just because you didn’t experience these things doesn’t mean those things didn’t exist.

It is a reality, and you trying to dismiss it through snark isn’t going to change the reality that people get harassed off of games with arbitrary numbers given to players. Damage done overall, specials killed, etc. are all arbitrary numbers that don’t tell the story of how a run went.

The amount of target harassment around those numbers given in other runs has everything to do with the spread of the numbers from a scorecard.

I can only marvel at your “We can’t stop people from being horrible, so let’s give them fuel” mentality, totally ignoring the negative repercussions of that.

People who were demanding a scoreboard and currently want one are asking Fatshark to do exactly that, to put in resources to develop and implement a scoreboard over the myriad of issues that plague the game. This isn’t some strawman, this is what those who want the scoreboard asap want.

Scoreboards don’t do anything to contribute to becoming a better player, paying attention to your own play does. The arbitrary numbers that are picked for any scoreboard don’t have a valid context to put them in, and just spread idiot ideas like the idea that the ironbreaker with a shield in VT2 is worthless since they don’t rack up the green circles, which was a discussion that happened in VT2 and lead to people leaving matches with one, while also leading to harassment in game about it.

Your flatout refusal to acknowledge that people using numbers off of a scoreboard to negatively impact someone else’s gameplay is also quite telling. You’re more focused on making your numbers bigger instead of the very real experiences of people that I’ve talked to.


Sometimes I rush in, lose all grenades and half HP just to save that poor guy who made a stupid mistake rushing in, losing all grenades and half HP just to save that poor guy who made a stupid mistake rushing in, losing all grenades and half HP just to save that poor guy who made a stupid mistake rushing in, losing all grenades and half HP just to save that poor guy who made a stupid mistake…


There is nothing wrong with pushing to be most effective at eliminating specials or wiping hordes.

Nothing to do with a scoreboard. There will always be a meta and a small number of players will always be actively elitist about it.

I invite you to read what I actually wrote. I said it’s overstated, not that it doesn’t exist.

Even if it weren’t making all kinds of bad assumptions about what causes harassment, this would be fatuous. The number of murders committed with hammers has everything to do with the sale of hammers. Are you also in favour of banning hammers? Of course not. Because the actual question is - what is the cost versus the benefit.

A lot of conscientious, good-natured and cooperative players find a scoreboard integral to their enjoyment of the game. The poor behaviour of others is not their responsibility, nor is it the fault of literal factual information existing. I’m all in favour of more useful stats being added, that would reflect the contribution of a shield ogryn or similar - but that’s not the discussion we’re having.

Parroting doesn’t look good. Nor does your repetition of this ‘fuel on the fire’ mantra with no compelling reasoning or sense of proportionality.

It is not ignoring negative repurcussions to identify that it is not a root cause of why a toxic player is toxic, and that the benefits to the playerbase far outweigh this.

I seriously doubt your generalisation of pro-scoreboard posters holds up to scrutiny, but what of it - I don’t agree with that idea and it’s not what I wrote. Given you were parroting my post (again) when you brought this up originally, this is just backpedalling into a nothing burger.

Another non-sequitur, this is not what I said. It is important for simple enjoyment for many, and it also helps you to know, even if crudely, whether you were as helpful as you thought you were during the game in certain key aspects.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and in fact one can aid the other. Humans are actually just as bad - if not worse - at accurate recall of a complex chain of recent events, than they are at interpreting simple numbers. So this isn’t a red herring you’d be well-served to pursue.

Only they’re not arbitrary. And the context is your memory of the game you literally just played - which as I’ve just said, can be informed by those numbers. They’re not perfect in VT2, but they’re reasonable and that’s better than having nothing. Every number in VT2’s board has a direct relevance to how much influence you had on the outcome of that game.

This should be obvious to any thinking person not blinded by cognitive dissonance.

If anything you’d be better arguing for more numbers that encompass more playstyles, like damage prevented to teammates by killing/interrupting/shielding or similar.

Numbers don’t spread idiot ideas, idiots spread idiot ideas, when they misinterpret numbers.

The fact that you assign all this agency and causality to inherant facts, rather than how people choose to employ them in the course of their good or bad behaviour, is a great advertisement for the teaching of critical thinking.

And do you for a moment seriously think that without scoreboards, there would not be a ‘prevailing wisdom’ among players about what is ‘meta’? And that this idea would not be wielded in exactly the same way you describe?

You’re misidentifying the problem and kicking the can down the road.

I’ve lost count now, but this is once again not what I said. We can add reading comprehension up there with critical thinking classes. What I said was that the scoreboard is incidental to that negative behaviour, not causal, and they would almost certainly behave negatively regardless.

It’s embarrassing to have to actually explain this but - part of the fun in videogames is seeing numbers go up because of things you did.

And of course negative interactions happen. There is nothing persuasive about referring to conversations you’ve had with people who have had a ‘very real’ bad experience, then doing a hop-skip-jump past any reasoning, and jumping straight to blaming the scoreboard.

It’s odd that you would expect anyone to disregard their own experience of thousands of 'tide games and take your word for it unthinkingly - but perhaps less odd when considering the odious mindset of someone who thinks they know best what’s good for everyone and wants to censor what information everyone has access to.

At no point in this post did you do anything but assert unsupported ideas, conflate correlation with causation, argue with things nobody said, snidely disregard what other players find fun, and display an alarming inability to grasp causality.

…Or read.


Fatshark is not saying we do not need it. They are saying its toxic. This is sociopolitical non-sense that the dev team (for unknown reasons) thinks is a real issue. Feelings before facts is the new nobility my friend.


Fatshark probably has some hard data to back it up, like chat logs or something. I don’t. I still think it’s toxic.

1 Like

reddit… research. lol

1 Like

I do not want a scoreboard. It promotes bad play. It already has been. Players are more concerned about getting bigger numbers than the rest of the team.
I would like to see my own accuracy, damage done and taken. I do not need to see how anyone else did. It is a team game, and I do not need to chastise people for not being as good as I might be. learn to play a game for the enjoyment of the game. No one is standing by to hand you a trophy for being a massive jackass to your pug because you looted the most chests and did the most dps. That is self-flagellation and nothing more.


Scoreboard? No Toxic, promote Competition.

Guy looting Plasteel & Diamantine mid wave? you deserve recognition.


If there is a scoreboard, it needs to be comprised of nothing but team play stats. Things like: teammate rescued from mutants/dogs, allies stood up, allies pulled from ledges, assists. These are just ideas of course. Things like “kills” are not relevant. I don’t want to see people hugging doors swinging weapons to rack up kills thinking of the scoreboard instead of playing the objective


This equals „how much did someone on the team fail“.

Get outta here.

If this is what you think would happen, implementing your „team play stats“ would be the worst thing you could do.

If everyone (except you of course) is just going for kills, because it is the only important thing (due to the scoreboard displaying them), your worst case scenario is, that you can peacefully stroll through the mission and do the objectives while all the enemies are being slain by your kill hungry teammates.

However, if your suggestion was implemented, and you are consistent in your logic, the teammates would now constantly try to push those „team play“ stats instead of their kills.
See a disabler? Don‘t kill it. Hope for a teammate to get disabled, then save them.
But wait for them to almost get downed first, so you get a revive off of them very soon.
A barrel? You better try to use it to kick someone off a cliff. Either you can pull them back up, or you get a rescue later on.
Kill enemies? Nah. Leave them all alife, so that they can kill your teammates.
Shield ogryn only. Turtle mode all day.
An objective to do? Nope. Better hide behind your shield and hope that some of your teammates get killed while trying to do that objective. You get to resurrect them and if they get killed completely, they will respawn for you to rescue them, in the same room. How convenient.

Sounds crazy? Yes. Nobody actually behaves that way. Basically all arguments against seeing everyone’s kills and damage numbers at the end of the mission, are the same made up scenarios with EVERYONE (except the person making up the scenario) being a raging idiot, ignoring everything and doing nothing but farming for the scoreboard.


TLDR: „teamplay stats“ are not really relevant for mission success and are entirely irrelevant for the evaluation of anyone‘s skill or general performance.
Kills and damage are the most important stats in regard to judging the personal performance as well as judging the value of a player for the team and for mission success.


I see your point. It’s absurd, but I see it. You’re saying that, in your crazy long post, you gathered from reading my post that I think that people will purposely play badly and do things to lose the game because of the scoreboard stats… and that’s why we need to see kills and damage. Great addition to the conversation.

1 Like

And reddit is currently 5% actual pop, so like 3-4% not worth it.
You might want to step outside of your echo chamber and touch grass.



Great argument…
For people like you, i aded a TLDR, which you apparently did not read (just like you apparently did not properly read or understand the rest of the post).

It was literally your argument, that people would just go after kills and not even do the objectives, if kills were displayed at the end of the mission (which is obviously not true).
I simply applied your logic (teammates only care about scoreboard) to your suggested scoreboard stats.

I never said that. I said something else though.

Considering that your suggestion was awful and full of fellacious „arguments“, i think me pointing that out, is quite a good addition.
However, considering how bad your suggestion was, how obviosly wrong your claims about people’s behavior around a kill display on the scoreboard are, and that you now misrepresented what i said, the same can not be said about you.


There’s no need to keep up with anything or invest any manpower in such a “problem”. A block/mute option does suffice.


B-b-but then people will rush towards the downed teammate in a frenzied attempt to be the one with most revives, completely ignoring everything else! Instead of shooting the dog they’ll let him jump on a teammate so they can get those sweet green circles! Pandemonium I tell you! Chaos will ensue!

1 Like

The effort in this post is sad. I’m sure you’re as much fun to play with in-game as you are in the forums. None of that word salad supports the need for a kill counter or damage/kills matttering more than keeping team mates up. Opinion discarded.

Imagine advocating for censoring a core feature of a franchise, then accusing someone of being sad & no fun to play with because they care about the experience they and others have in the game and are voicing opposition to odious moral censors with terrible arguments.

This is the equivalent of having your nonsense called in public and proceeding to splutter “Yeah, well, you’re stupid!”

Just imagine the cognitive dissonance required to propose policing everyone’s fun, and conclude “No, it’s the other players who are no fun!”

Like a walking Principal Skinner meme.


Jumps down peoples throat. Calls them pointing it out censureship. Nice. Can you censor something thats absent?
I think I really strongly oppose scoreboards more than ever now. Obviously a cadre of emotionally unstable and combative players with a tendency for emotional outburst at innocuous internet videogame forum banter would never be toxic in-game.

I’m not sure how you jump down someone’s throat on a forum. Heaven forefend anyone should disagree with you! I suppose you feel the need to hyperbolise in this manner because you’ve nothing of substance to respond with bar repeating the same baseless mantra.

I don’t think even you know what you mean by this.

There is a reading comprehension theme emerging with these people.

How unlike someone with an irrational position to double down on it in the face of their argument failing.

More cognitive dissonance; “When I do it, it’s banter! When other people respond in kind, it’s an emotional outburst”

Another impressive logical leap, bravo!
You sound like one of those parents in the 90’s/00’s that wanted to ban videogames.

-“We’re going to ban videogames, they’re making people toxic!”
+“What? That’s stupid.”
-“Aha! See!”

This is and has always been how sanctimonious cretins argue.