Like dual hammers’ “light 4” attack, 2H Sword needs a “light 3” attack that is only accessible after push-attack, using GK’s ult stab animation.
This will make 2H Sword a more usable weapon but not make it overpowered(since it still needs a full stamina shield to do that attack, and the damage is split between two attacks - the stab being more skill-dependent than downward chop). Probably cost almost nothing to add but will add more playable options to two characters in this game.
I’m not heavily against this suggestion but I’m strongly against the idea that greatsword isn’t already excellent. I had my eyes opened to its strength many “buff greatsword” threads ago and at this point I may as well be an evangelist for it as statements like:
… make me wanna scream. Dear god it’s a lot more than playable. If it’s gonna get tweaked at all I’d much rather see the light attacks changed to something that isn’t just functionally worse version of the heavy attack. Nothing crazy just an interesting swipe pattern for individual/low density infantry. That would spice it up a lot without taking away its intended weaknesses.
I play with the double swords a lot and I think they’re great.
They’re not good against armored opponents, but the push attack goes through shields.
In addition, the heavy attacks go through several armored opponents.
The light attacks are great too, simple but effective, having a stab or something in there would annoy me a lot, but that’s just my opinion.
And we know that it’s actually just a crowd control weapon.
(Commenting based on Legend difficulty. I feel that the Greatsword is less viable on Legend, compared to Cata.)
I pretty much only use the Greatsword on GK, where it can be paired with a high single target damage weapon. I think your suggestion is good since that will make the GS a more viable choice for the other careers. With the GS, you’re pretty much forced to repeat push attacks and drain your stamina quickly if you want to do optimal single-target damage. This is especially annoying on Foot Knight since pushing or push-attacking enemies knocked to the ground will make them immediately stand up.
There was a similar well-received feedback post in Reddit /r/Vermintide:
Add a light attack combo that comes only after push-attack. It should be a repeating combo of overheads that has the exact same properties of the push-attack. You cannot combo into the normal light attacks from this combo, only the heavy attacks.
Variant 2: Instead of repeating overheads, you grab the greatsword in a half-swording stance and do repeating thrust combos, which in turn would make the combo:
Push-Attack → Half-Sword Thrust from above (L3) → Half-Sword Thrust from below (L4) → repeat L3
In Variant 2, the damage would still be the same, the animation and hitbox work would be different.
You get some extra nuance of the greatsword.
You solve the issue of burning stamina, spamming push-attacks for average anti-armor hits. If you are really crafty with dodging, you can keep an onslaught of anti-armor hits on something like stormvermin packs: by the time you need to block or push-attack again, you’ll have your stamina back.
OP meant Kruber’s Greatsword (Two-Handed Sword), not Kerillian’s Dual Swords, whose push attacks can go through shields. Greatsword push attack does not go through shields.
This is really only true vs CWs. For enemies like SV I think the optimal combo is Heavy Attack (preferably headshot) into push attack repeat. Works especially well with mainstay since they end up in stagger 2 state by the time the push attack hits. Cleans up even Cata SV surprisingly fast. Really CWs are the only actual pain for the weapon to deal with when utilised well. Kruber at least can always bring a CS handgun to help with those though.
Also I think sucking against specifically CWs is a fine enough trade for absurd damage cleave, surprisingly good stagger breakpoints and above average dodges for a 2h weapon
Yeah that do be hard facts. Honestly if there’s anywhere I wouldn’t mind seeing it get a straight buff it might vs bosses. It is kinda needlessly pathetic there. Mind you that’s not an uncommon Kruber weapon issue.
I don’t think that anti-SV combo is optimal on Legend. You’ll kill them slower that way. Optimal Melee Weapon Combo guide says that the optimal GS combo for all armored elites is chain push attacks. It’s also easier to headshot with the top-down push attacks than the right-left heavy attacks.
In a vacuum against literally a single SV that might be true. From a great deal of actually using the weapon though I’m extremely confident that balancing practicality vs groups, along with overall DPS and stamina consumption the combo I described is your better option in 95% of actual game scenarios.
Also it’s no secret GS’s strengths are generally overkill on Legend. It doesn’t matter though since it’s still well more than serviceable there. I maintain if you’re just spamming push attack in almost any scenario you’re simply not using the weapon well in reality.
As a side note @Rebel it’s yet another one of these threads. Bring your pitchfork for these heretics my GS brethren
Greatsword is one of those weapons that are just useless in most difficulties.
FK is able to cleave, and stagger, up to five cata SVs with it. You wont ever need that on Legend. Even Cata runs will struggle to hand you the density that lets the Greatsword shine.
If a weapons major upside is meaningless in most cases, why bother with it? Its single target/monster dps is low. The overall gameplay boring.
Your scream and moan isn’t going to change the fact that 2h sword is generally regarded as subpar option compared to the rest, often DLC options. (spear, spear+shield, and mace+sword all deal with hordes/SV very well/well enough; and are generally more fun to play and bring more to the table - such as more movement speed potential)
Light attacks do something - it can be spammed faster than heavy attack for unarmored horde.
It’s “great” in name only.
IIRC you can stack full stamina and still won’t get enough (without regen) to kill one CW on cata.
Giving it a stab attack after pushattack isn’t going to make it overpowered(because you need to actually do the stab after push-attack, and probably hit the head to do more significant damage).
On the other hand I’ve seen plenty of people praise it for Cata, some modifiers like Twins and even modded content, and below Cata you can really just play what you enjoy and it’s not an issue. I really think the dislike for it comes primarily from its uninteresting moveset not its effectiveness, which is very good for at least 3 if not 4 of the classes that can use it. I even said I’m not strongly against a stab after the push attack, I just don’t think that combats the heavy spam playstyle, which again, after a lot of playtime with it is where I’d place its biggest issue.
Spear is unusable by FK and none of those options are nearly as good against dense mixed hordes with the possible exception of spear and shield, and hey to each their own on that one but personally its moveset feels horribly clunky and unenjoyable to me. It’s also no secret that mace + sword was badly overbuffed and is a pretty poor comparison point for any weapon. That thing is just dumb at the moment.
I know greatsword is not popular, that’s fine but saying it’s not good is simply incorrect, using popularity as a measure of effectiveness is fallacious, is it really that bad for a weapon to need higher level content to really show its strengths? I don’t think so personally.
I think “95%” is hyperbole. The GS has very poor anti-armor damage if not using Push Attacks. I call Heavy GS attacks on armored units, “tickle” damage. While, yes it’s a good idea to use the Heavy Attacks if there is a horde with the armored enemies, you will barely do any damage to the armored enemies with the heavies. If you’re left with multiple armored enemies (which is definitely not ~5% of the time as per my experience) it’s better to use the optimal combo against them (chain push attacks) to kill them faster rather than tickle them all with the heavies. However, since you’re forced to do chain push attacks, that leaves you with little or no stamina to block… Hence, this thread and others like it.
Generally, it’s also harder to headshot elites with diagonal, nearly horizontal right-left or left-right attacks, like the GS heavies. You are likely to hit another body part before hitting the head, nullifying the headshot attempt. Overhead attacks that are nearly vertical, like GS push attacks are easier to headshot with since they will hit the head first if you aim accurately.