Proposed Greatsword rework

Without going into talk about balance and power, I think we can all agree on that Kruber’s and Saltzpyre’s greatswords aren’t terribly interesting. Their attacks have a singular purpose, to cleave hordes, and they do it with just swings to left and right. As someone with a certain fondness for historical sword-fighting, I see this as a major shame. So, without further ado, on to my proposed rework:

(Disclaimer: While I am interested in history, and inspired by it, I don’t claim by proposal is 100% historical. I do attempt to keep it internally consistent, however.)

First of all, let’s define what qualities should define the greatsword. It has a long reach, and can perform wide swings. The long handle allows for great handling, and as such all attacks should have a generous window to cancel into guard.

With that out of the way, let’s discuss attacks.

With the aim of making the light attack more interesting, but without making it too awkward to use for it’s intended purpose, I suggest making a three-part light attack chain, starting with a

  1. Wide horizontal sweep to the left with a bit of a windup, followed by
  2. A quick diagonal cut upwards, finishing with a
  3. a heavy down-swing, armor penetrating and with an increased headshot modifier.

The push-stab should visually tie in with the light attack chain, making it a swift high horizontal cut.

With the heavy attacks, I wanted to give the weapon some mobility to contrast with the executioner sword, making it a

  1. a low thrust with a dash component and high armor penetration, followed by
  2. an upwards swing with free movement.

The light attack slowdown and stamina would be fine as they are now.

With these changes, I think some would find the greatsword a more appealing and distinct option, more visually impressive and with more utility. Consider this, and comment.

2 Likes

For supposed history, noone of these actually adress the point.
Normal attacks of the 2h are fine if too slow. Charge attacks should all be Kerris 2h charge tho (a pseudo halfswording hit followed by swipe) and all of them are TOO DAMN SHORT. These are all actually greatswords (as can be seen by wave count on the flameblade, ricasso for krubs and as said kerris arm rest “halfswording” stab) thus should have the reach of Krubers Halberd and Kerris Spear (with how the 2 are held and used at least). As for the Executioner, it just needs to lose the 3rd worthless strike on light chain and have the charge attacks both be actually vertical (along with bug fix for range of 2nd light and 1st charge being shorter than their equivalent mirrored strikes and phantom swings).

As for the unique flavor part, giving Kruber a shield breaking mordhau as the alt attack would be cool (but entirely not needed)

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Well in V1, while its true you still used the standard side to side sweep attacks…

Reality is it was much more interesting than that. Usually you had Devastating Blow on it for a lot of Knockback. So You’d step in with a charged attack… and just sweep through a ton of enemies staggering them, then you’d block/push and knock them all on their rear ends, then step in with another charged attack and kill them on the ground.

But the swings are so slow in comparison to the mobs in V2 that no matter what you do, you just take this TON of damage while doing it.

In V1 (granted the mobs are slower and so is the game), you can sit there and do this through the entire horde, just knocking them down and then charged shot killing them, much like you see Kruber using the Two Handed Hammer.

But for some reason I cannot do that in this game.

When I went back and played a little V1 recently I saw the reason why. The mobs and their attacks are much slower in V1, even on higher difficulties. So the Two Handed Sword perfectly fits the speed of the mobs and is much more Viable

The Two Handed Sword in comparison here… is too slow in comparison to the Mobs, and has a lot less knockdown capability.

So here you take a crapton of damage while using it unlike in V1, also in V1 you tended to have the Bloodlust trait on it so each mob you killed had a chance to heal you for 10 HPs.

The Two Hander just does not work that well in this game in comparison to V1.

You are almost describing the 1h sword light pattern.
Which is a diagonal downward then horizontal sweep then heavy down swing with AP and good HS mod.
While i think it would be good for the greatsword to have some AP i think your idea of the light chain would make a copy of the 1h sword.

Now for your idea of heavy attack pattern it is exactly the same as the elf 2h sword which is the best 2h sword because of the heavy attack having good AP and the thrust having a really good HS mod.
This is what make the sword atleast viable compared to victor and kruber 2h sword.

I would keep the light chain as it is, and either make the push attack or the heavy attack having a good pattern for AP. If you go for heavy then the 3 2h sword will be much alike, but i would like to see it being the push attack instead for victor and kruber to have some sort or variety along 2h sword since the elf 2h sword is supposedly a different fighting style than any other.

So to sum up, i would like to see a push attack being an AP thrust attack instead of making the weapon light and heavy chain like other weapons.

1 Like

Agree with you they are too slow and any dmg cancel your attacks…
The elf 2h sword light are way faster than kruber and victor making it even more viable on this point too.

There are differences - Kerillian’s two handed sword has no dash to the power attack, and is built for precision. What I’m proposing is a charged attack for closing in on armored targets.

Is it wrong for the attack chain of a one-handed sword to resemble the attack chain of the two-handed sword? They’d differ in speed, reach, cleave and damage, and would have completely different power attacks.

EDIT: Not to mention movement speed and dodge penalties.

Not saying it is wrong to have same pattern, i just dont think it is worth the trouble to revamp a weapon if you are just taking pattern from other weapons.

Still i know what you suggest is not exactly the same pattern but when i read your feedback it make me think of them, so the idea behind them is exactly the same purpose that the pattern i mentioned in my previous post.

Yeah part of it is the speed of the swings in comparison to the mobs…

But the other part was a larger degree of knockdown on mobs… it didn’t send them flying the way the shield did… but it knocked down all normal mobs… and staggered elites.

This was a real key in its usage… both of which are gone in this game in comparison to V1… hence, its not viable anymore… when it was viable in V1.

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