I deleted the last thread by accident with a misclick that did not even prompt a confirmation window. Amazing stuff. And it left a thread stump that prevented re-using the original title. Even more amazing. Anyway.
The following is a transcript of a lengthy discussion I had with a friend of mine, Mortaro. The topic of our discussion was what it would take to make all weapons viable, with possible stat changes, moveset changes, and also in some cases, complete reworks. We considered it to be OK if a weapon was only viable with certain builds and careers, as long as it was not clearly inferior to its competition in every way. When we did not reach a conclusion, I will write both of our thoughts as alternatives to each other. These ideas were conceived with Legend difficulty in mind.
-
WEAPONS
-
Kruber :
-
Bretonnian Longsword : Fine as is. Or so we thought. After playing it some more today, I had to realize that there really is no reason to take this weapon. Both its horde clear and elite damage are mediocre, and the unique guarded heavy attack doesn’t make up for it (especially since the guard takes quite a long to take effect after initiating the heavy attack). IMHO this weapon either needs the guard to be instantaneous after initiating a heavy attack, or it needs enough damage or much faster heavy attacks to compete with the executioner GS in its elite and special killing potential.
-
Bretonnian Sword and Shield : Fine as is.
-
Executioner Sword : Friend’s opinion: At most, a 1-3% Attack Speed increase and easier to aim on heavy attacks. IMO: Fine as it is.
-
Great Hammer : At most, increase the stagger and slightly decrease damage and add in or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Bardin’s Great Hammer.
-
Greatsword : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Saltzpyre’s Greatsword. Could perhaps use damage and cleave increase.
-
Halberd : Fine as is.
-
Mace : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as both Bardin’s Hammer and Saltzpyre’s Skull-Splitter Hammer. Kruber’s mace should stand out with its attack speed.
-
Mace and Shield : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as both Bardin’s Hammer and Shield and Saltzpyre’s Skull-Splitter and Shield and maybe a slight damage increase. Alternative to damage increase is an attack speed increase.
-
Mace and Sword : Fine as is.
-
Spear and Shield : Fine as is.
-
Sword : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Sienna’s Sword.
-
Sword and Shield : Increase its damage across the board.
-
Tuskgor Spear : Fine as is.
-
Blunderbuss : Either massively buff its damage and give it super armor penetration so it can reliable one shot Chaos Warriors with the right properties OR make it an anti-horde weapon that will pierce through a massive amount of low tier infantry in a single shot.
-
Handgun : Something to make it unique as it’s the same Handgun that Bardin has access to.
-
Repeater Handgun : An increase max ammo capacity by 1 magazine.
-
Longbow : Fine as is.
-
Bardin :
-
Axe : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Saltzpyre’s Axe and increase the stagger power to differentiate between all the kinds of axes.
-
Axe and Shield : Fine as is.
-
Cog Hammer : Reduce the stagger power and more damage on light attacks. Currently, there is no reason to pick Great Hammer over cog hammer, given that both do mediocre damage and huge stagger, but the Cog Hammer is noticeably better over all. We would like to see the cog hammer as a more damage-oriented weapon that slaps around enemies less but kills them more, and the Great Hammer as a stagger-oriented weapon.
-
Dual Hammers : Slight reduction in stagger power, or fine as it is. An extremely powerful melee weapon, which would be fine if it was Slayer-exclusive, but it isn’t. On the other hand, it only really shines if oyu have another way to kill elites (other melee for Slayer, MW Pistol for Ranger).
-
Dual Axes : Increase its damage across the board.
-
Great Axe : Fine as is.
-
Great Hammer : Increase the stagger and slightly decrease damage and add in or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Kruber’s Great Hammer. See Cog Hammer for further details on our thought process.
-
Hammer : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as both Kruber’s Mace and Saltzpyre’s Skull-Splitter Hammer. Bardin’s hammer should stand out with exceptional stagger power.
-
Hammer and Shield : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as both Kruber’s Mace and Shield and Saltzpyre’s Skull-Splitter and Shield and maybe a slight damage increase or alternatively, it should stand out by having the highest stagger power of all similar weapons.
-
War Pick : Slight increase in cleave power and the ability to bypass shielded enemies as Bardin lacks any such weapon. Also, there is currently no real reason to pick (no pun intended) this over the Greataxe, while shield bypass would give this weapon a unique and even realistic gimmick.
-
Crossbow : Something to make it unique as it’s the same Crossbow that Saltzpyre has access to.
-
Drakefire Pistols: Slight increase in damage and no more exploding and killing yourself. Instead, it should apply the burned hand effect similarly to an over-cranked OE gatling gun, do a health damage based on a percentage of the player’s current health, and prevent the gun from being used until it cools down to about 25-50%.
-
Drakegun: Something to make it unique as it’s the same weapon as Sienna’s Flamestorm Staff and also either massively reduce the charge-up time while buffing either the range or damage, or both, adding stagger or even knockback to the attack and not losing all progress on being hit by anything OR completely redesigning the weapon so it now doesn’t require a charge-up but instead holding down the attack button will continuously shoot, adding in some of the effects previously listed and no more exploding and killing yourself.
-
Grudge-raker : Increase the ammo count by 2-4 more shots.
-
Handgun : Something to make it unique as it’s the same Handgun that Kruber has access to.
-
Masterwork Pistol : Fine as is.
-
Trollhammer Torpedo : Fine as is.
-
Kerillian :
-
Dual Daggers : Fine as is.
-
Dual Swords : Fine as is.
-
Elven Axe : All single-handed axes should be buffed. While Saltz’s should have the most damage, Bardin’s the most stagger, Kerillian’s should stand out with attack speed and dodges, while still having more damage than it does now.
-
Elven Spear : Increase the damage across the board.
-
Glaive : Fine as is.
-
Greatsword : Increase the damage and speed of heavy attacks.
-
Spear and Shield : Fine as is.
-
Sword :Increase the damage across the board.
-
Sword and Dagger : Lower the damage OR decrease the stagger power OR increase push cost. Consider removing its ability to bypass shields with the push attacks.
-
Briar Javelin : Weapon should be reworked to punish its use on trash mobs and to make it less viable as a melee weapon. To achieve the first, its ammo count could be lowered, its cleave definitely should be lowered, and its reload should be much longer. To achieve the second, its dodges should be significantly nerfed. The Javelin should also be harder to snipe with, by making its ballistic drop more significant. This would relegate the Javelin to be a close to mid-range elite killer, while horde clear would be relegated to swift bow and Hagbane, while sniping would be relegated to Longbow.
-
Deepwood Staff : Reduce the overcharge cost of the attack. Alternatively, lifted enemies should suffer DoT or increased damage taken from other sources. While non-lethal support is nice, the lack of direct damage from the SotT while she is doing it either negates the benefits, or overshadows them entirely in her current state.
-
Hagbane Shortbow : Fine as is.
-
Longbow : Fine as is.
-
Moonfire Bow: Increase the amount of shots that can be fired before it needs to cooldown by 1.
-
Swift Bow: Add a bleed effect to the arrows by default that will not stack with itself and only does damage once or twice for a low amount.
-
Volley Crossbow: Fine as is as it can be fixed by addressing the Shade’s talents instead, which should give ammo on a percentage basis with lower cooldown.
-
Saltzpyre :
-
Axe : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Bardin’s Axe and to further differentiate all the axes increase its damage by a significant amount.
-
Axe and Falchion : Fine as is.
-
Bill Hook : Fine as is.
-
Falchion : To create distinction between this and the Greatsword, this should be a horde clearing weapon that’s safer (better dodges and faster guard) but does less damage while still maintaining some elite killing potential on its heavy attacks.
-
Flail : Fine as is.
-
Flail and Shield : Fine as is.
-
Greatsword : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Kruber’s Greatsword. Also needs a slight buff to its damage or attack speed.
-
Paired Skull-Splitters : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Bardin’s Dual Hammers.
-
Rapier : Reduce its cleave and put more of an emphasis on using heavy attacks as its mainstay thing as rapiers are known for stabbing rather than slashing. This would make the Rapier a primarily anti-elite weapon while GS would be the horde clearer. Falchion would take the role of jack-of-all-trades, but without the clear superiority of the current Rapier in just about every way.
-
Reckoner Great Hammer : Fine as is. (Friend’s opinion). IMHO it is not powerful enough to justify how cumbersome it is. More stagger and/or damage and/or faster recovery from animation locks is in order.
-
Skull-Splitter and Blessed Tome : Swap Heavy 1 for Heavy 2 to make it more consistent as an offensive stagger based weapon. Current heavy 1 needs AoE stagger so it won’t be suicidal to barrel into enemies with it.
-
Skull-Splitter and Shield : Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as both Kruber’s Mace and Shield and Bardin’s Hammer and Shield. This weapon should stand out with its damage from its peers.
-
Skull-Splitter Hammer: Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as both Kruber’s Mace and Bardin’s Hammer. Again, should stand out with its damage.
-
Brace of Pistols : Fine as is.
-
Crossbow : Something to make it unique as it’s the same Crossbow that Bardin has access to.
-
Griffon-Foot : Fine as is.
-
Repeater Pistol : Increase the damage across the board.
-
Volley Crossbow : Fine as is.
-
Sienna :
-
Crowbill : The wide sweep attacks should have a small fire explosion that cleaves through a few enemies that only does direct damage once with no damage over time to help the weapon horde clear a little bit better. Alternatively, add a weapon special that is the aforementioned fire-enahnced wide sweep with cleave, but costing stamina AND applying DoT.
-
Dagger : Fine as is.
-
Ensorcelled Reaper : Almost fine as is. Except for one specific build with the necro that makes it kinda broken, but that’s a necro issue. The wepaon special is not particularly useful, it should be guarding while it is cast.
-
Fire Sword : Adding in another Heavy attack that is worth using as it’s currently a very boring to use weapon. IMHO it needs a complete rework and most, if not all, of its attacks should revolve around applying DoT. The Current H1 - block cancel - repeat meta needs to die.
-
Flaming Flail : Fine as is.
-
Mace : Increased damage and cleave, and AoE similar to the Flail on its’ H1 attack. Generally speaking, the Mace should be stronger in some way than the flail, at the cost of having no shield bypass.
-
Sword :Add or replace an attack as it currently shares the same moveset as Kruber’s Sword. (Friend’s personal opinion: adding or replace 1 of the attacks with the flaming sword L3 to create a distinction between the char’s techniques)
-
Beam Staff :Reduce the overcharge generated by using Right-Click as you are shooting the beam and adding in a 10% damage against Monsters modifier.
-
Bolt Staff : Fine as is. Maybe add a sniper zoom as weapon special.
-
Conflagration Staff : Friend’s opinion: fine as is. IMHO needs a complete rework to be a situational, kinda meme-y, but fun weapon. It should generate humongous amounts of overcharge, but cast actual explosions that utterly decimate the target area and not just apply DoT and some stagger.
-
Coruscation Staff : Reduce the duration of the firestorms do and add in a sound effect for enemies that are inside it (a scream for enemies set on fire) to make it easier to tell if something is inside it as it’s currently hard to see through. Or just make the firestorms easier to see through.
-
Fireball Staff : Fine as is. (My opinion: needs a slight damage buff to reliably one-hit kill Stormvermin with fully charged balls).
-
Flamestorm Staff : Something to make it unique as it’s the same weapon as Bardin’s Drakegunand also either massively reduce the charge-up time while buffing either the range or damage, or both, adding stagger or even knockback to the attack and not losing all progress on being hit by anything OR completely redesigning the weapon so it now doesn’t require a charge-up but instead holding down the attack button will continuously shoot, adding in some of the effects previously listed. If we opt for the rework route, a new secondary fire attack that deals very significant damage to a single target at point-blank range could be considered. Think of sticking the staff into the Chaos Warrior right in front of you to cook him from the inside out.
-
Soulstealer Staff : Fine as is. Maybe a slight reduction on the overcharge generated by the secondary attack to allow one more casting of it.