I think Saltzpyre’s flail is slightly underwhelming, lowish armor damage, but you’re right about WHC getting good mileage from it.
Love Elf GS, but I’d love to see the light attack pattern changed to downward strokes.
Warpick works for me, but bigaxe still needs something to make it a better option than hammers for me. What can you honestly get from it that the big hammer can’t smash in fewer hits?
2 shields for falchion is way too little. If it cleaved more I could agree with it having so little defense.
Empire 2h sword needs a boost. Weapon still feels bad despite the elite cleaving niche. I wish I had a good suggestion for it. Maybe a good stab in it’s light attack combo?
yes agree, thats why athenor is such a good thing for me atleast. you can change your builds on the fly, dont need to have 20 copies of everything. add loadout saver to that and its like perfect. (yes i know you have a loadout manager mod but you need copies of weps)
I think you are talking about the billhook billhook is indeed super strong, once you get used to it.
It’s a tough one because the moveset feels smooth, the spam attacks are necessary for it to work (stagger + THP generation), so I’m not sure about giving it any downtime with a stab, and the push-attack wouldn’t make that gap any smoother. Would have to give it a cleave push-attack if you were to add a poke.
Actually, it could work well with a heavy poke, because you’ll be spamming them vs Elites anyway. I just realised the lights would be a bit weird because of this.
It just needs to be fast and not interrupt the spam too much is basically what I’m trying to say.
If I were to do anything with it, I would try to buff the push-attacks, maybe with some ARP or headshot damage or crit. I think it’s so good at stagger/cleave of Elites, it’s really hard to balance for.
Greatsword is strong and underrated. It’s probably the weapon I am most comfortable with and take it to true solo runs and C3O runs where it does very well.
These weapons are horrible in comparison to every other shield option. One big issues is that you cannot push into bash. The other issue is damage if you do need to attack. They are worse in every way outside of block angle which is negligible.
At this point I’m not sure what your standard for balance is. This is one of the lowest damage weapons in the game with below average stamina and below average mobility. What does it do well? It doesn’t cleave a lot outside of heavies which are very slow with very short range. It bypasses shields but gives up every other advantage in the game to do so. It’s very bad in comparison to other weapons. Could I take this on zealot and top damage? Sure. But I could do so with every other weapon more easily.
Just… no. How does it have ridiculous survival? Please explain. It is relatively slow, has low cleave in comparison to attack speed. Every light attack is an uppercut motion making it very difficult to headshot with. It’s heavy is slow, low dps, high risk attack that, even on headshot, struggles to hit meaningful BP’s.
So they are both insanely strong but they require 30% more damage, 15% more power, and roughly 40% more attack speed to make them viable. See the problem? Also, even on slayer these are both terrible options. Neither of these weapons are better than 2HH in any situation.
You seem to think a weapon is good if it makes thp on cleave. This is confusing because every weapon inthe game makes thp on cleave.
Overhead moveset? You mean light attack 3?? Or do you just mean that it doesn’t have a jank uppercut attack pattern like elf greatsword?
High attack speed? Compared to what? Other 1H weapons? Dual weapons? 2H weapons?
pretty sure only light 3 does armor damage. IIRC, light attack headshots do armor damage, which is true for every attack in the game. Also, they do like 6.5 damage. Overhead 3 does mediocre damage at best and the heavies are worse in every way compared to other 1H swords. Also, other 1H swords have more stamina and you can chain heavy, heavy L3 for armor dps.
There is some truth to this. However, there are several weapons that are good at nothing. At least not in comparison to other weapons. Those are the ones I listed. Also, the idea of building a comp around your builds is not realistic in a game that is mostly ran off of a QP system. Unfortunately, it’s necessary to be able to do everything for your team because V2 quickplay usually comes down to being able to carry your group or not. At least in my experience.
Push-Attack overheads are good vs Elites, your job is to CC not purely damage. The Stam+Crit(SS) will allow you to spam near enough the same moveset as 1H Mace with less mobility. If you play with a melee clear using Mainstay it’s god tier.
FK with Zealot working together is near invincible, and the Zealot has space to do w.e he wants. I play this with my friend in Cata all the time.
If you’re not playing with people who make use of your Stagger/Frontlining, it’s not worth playing. Mainly for your own sake.
The point is the Stagger from it’s moveset and the amount of the THP makes it a support/survival weapon. Not every weapon in the game is there to be an ultra-versatile carry weapon. As I mentioned before, the Zealot I play with uses Flail, tops damage and can have insane survival.
Then it’s fine. A weapon with good survival can top damage.
Just yes. This is my main weapon with HM now. I was playing it before the THP buffs and topping damage while being extremely tanky, now I’m even more tanky.
The push-attack is 0.37 seconds before speed increases and has 25% Crit chance. You’ll never not have Swiftslaying up, and because you’re HM, you can just run Stam Regen on your Trinket and Push-Attack forever. It’s one of the safest weapons for dealing with roamers because you can Push-Attack Crit random enemies once or twice, and they’re done in less than a second. Because you run Mainstay, the Push-Attack benefits you even more.
I run Crit/Crit Power on the weapon, and Crit Power/(Chaos or Armoured) on Charm, Focused Spirit and Mainstay. Also the Crit Ult makes left click spamming insane if you get a good one.
You now have about 35% passive Attack Speed constantly because of the Crit. Versus Elites, spam Push-Attacks until you get SS and then start to go for Charged hits. Push-Attack Crits will also deal decent damage to Elites.
The Charged Attacks aren’t easy to get off, but you need to practice the timing.
Synergizes really well with a WHC or Huntsman (babysit him while he kills everything), for extra Crit.
Unless you get bursted down, it’s pretty difficult to die as this build, and you can also top damage.
If you buffed these weapons Slayer would just become broken. He already gains 7.5% Attack Speed Passive, which is why these work with him.
I completely disagree. 2H Axe was good vs Elites and Bosses before the buff, now it’s just insane. On Slayer it’s one of the best Elite killers in the game.
Mining Pick works really well on Slayer for those same roles, but also has Horde clear. It’s perfectly capable of topping damage and Elite kills. If you really want to build for it you have to take Movement Speed too.
There’s a build that works for RV with it, but it’s a lot of effort with Concoction, and Bomb Ult Spam into spamming lights with the Speed from Conc.
The problem with these Weapons isn’t the Weapons themselves, it’s IB and RV having no 7.5% Attack Speed bonus like Slayer.
Not when the Multiple hit THP was bad. Every Weapon in the game got buffed when they changed it. Having more THP means you can play more offensively, and therefore get more damage done. If you’re playing a Weapon with high Cleave, almost every Horde is full THP.
MHTHP gives more THP than Stagger THP.
On a side note: this change was actually a big buff to RV.
All of the Light combo is downwards, if you hold it a head height, you can farm Headshots for days. You bringing the Elf Sword moveset up pretty much proves that you knew this anyway.
Combos well with the Deathknell Talent on WHC.
Compared to nothing. It can get a lot of attacks off quickly. That’s the strength of the 1H Swords, high Mobility and high Attack Speed.
All of it’s Lights do Armour damage, that’s better than every other 1H Sword in the game, which rely on Crits or the C1 > C2 > L3 combo.
You also have instant kill headshot Crits with WHC.
Attack speed with Zealot to get more lights off while on the move.
And BH can use it just as a mobility weapon with the high Dodge bonus.
Or just play with an Elite clear and focus on Horde/Ranged instead of trying to do everything yourself.
Herein lies the problem. You clearly do not understand balance if you’re not making comparisons. How can you balance if you don’t weigh one thing against the other? That’s the literal definition of balance.
There are a ton of other factually incorrect statements in your response, but I feel that pointing them out would not do either of us any good. Have a good day and enjoy your rat killing.
Nope. The Push-Attack chains into the C2, which is the slam.
Temp HP generation, Stagger (range and cleave of stagger, and also how much you push attack factor in), Stamina count, Mobility, and Attack Speed are all defensive properties.
This is just words. Just play the game and look at the Attack Speed of the Light attack combo on Falcion. If you can’t see that it’s a decent speed I don’t know what to say.
There are a ton of other factually incorrect statements in your response, but I feel that pointing them out would not do either us any good. Have a good day and enjoy your rat killing.
the weapon has very little to do with a good player on an extremely strong class with huge buffs to damage and survivability being able to top damage. you can top damage with anything on zealot, but it’s the class letting you ignore the weakness of the weapons, not proof of good balance.
You’re beginning to see my point. If you buff those weapons they become overtuned on those careers.
I’m completely fine with Career-locked weapons in the name of balance, as long as they provide alternatives.
I’d say the same is doable on WHC too, and it can also be used to just frontline similar to 1H Mace. That weapon doesn’t top damage either, but I can play really well with it and support my team. Also as long as you have overhead Light Attack combos every Ult can be devestating.
The issue with the argument of locking stuff is that we already have weapons that are insanely overtuned on those careers. Axe and falchion or billhook are still crazy strong, they’re even more so when you add a whole bunch more damage and attack speed to them, on a class who gets pretty big buffs to survivability too.
Zealot making it hard to balance weapons is a good reason to change zealot, not to leave the weapons themselves in a bad spot.
But they’re not even close to a bad spot. Both weapons can be made use of if built and played with properly, people are just perceiving them as bad because they’re not destroying everything like A+F, Rapier on WHC, or the Billhook.
It gives me no issues to play both as specific roles rather than doing everything, Falc plays like 1H Swords on other Careers (Mobility+Attack Speed) and Flail needs the weird Push > cancel > L1 L2 combo to work well. The only changes if any I would recommend are Falc +1 Stam Shield to match his other weapons, and Flail move speed while attacking, or more momentum in the direction you’re attacking, and another possible change would be to make the push-attacks chain into L1 L2.
I agree with you about Zealot, though. His power for sure does not need to include his ranged weapons either and he needs a longer weapon switch imo.
This is called balancing. Do you want to nerf rapier, Bill Hook and A+F? For that matter, do you want to nerf every weapon that isn’t as bad as the ones I listed? If you do not want to nerf them, then the bad weapons need to be buffed. Otherwise, you have a large imbalance so people feel obligated to play with the same few weapons in order to perform as well as possible. Thus, the gameplay becomes repetitive and stale.
billhook is indeed super strong, once you get used to it.