The only fact is that now it’s harder.
This is false. Moreover also some careers like Merc give less tHP (before you could use tHP+cd reduction).
Patch Notes are wrong, then.
Before everything could melt hordes. Everything was a light saber.
Now you have to choose your team wisely… Now you are more dependent to mates.
Before it was like enemies had not mass.
Finally a good constructive explanation rather than just forum’s fight.
As said I’m not here to say if BW, Spear, etc etc nerf were needed or not. I’m here to report the buff lackness;
That Huntsman isn’t overshadowed (imho) is simple false. In beta section I wrote a big and motivated thread… Honestly I can’t repeat it here. I hope you read it.
To be ultra-brief: HS has a slower weapon with worse breakpoints compared with BH and WS. Ammo regen is worse too. Boss damage is worse too.
HS is only better vs hordes (but currently hordes spawn directly on us, we haven’t the time to fire).
“No new stuff?” Yep, no new stuff. Or better not enough. Just few hats (anyway already present in beta, I was talking about 2.1.0.1 patch) imho aren’t enough.
My point is essentially that Fatshark’s focus this patch wasn’t balance changes, but the Emporium, alongside response to certain meta standouts with aimed nerfs. Nonetheless, nerfs bring balance in one way or another, so the lack of buffs is somewhat justified since Bolt Sienna is just as problematic as Hot Buns, albeit not braindead silly. And this isn’t the case for just the Sienna, since most of the changes that came after the beta were to shift the balance a bit without destroying certain playstyles. If Fatshark wants to take their sweet time to revitalize certain weapons, talents and/or other aspects of combat in future patches, I’m more than eager to wait for them while I tinker with what we have right now.
Huntsman isn’t the strongest backline class, that I will admit, but that doesn’t mean he’s undesirable to have in a team, unlike RV, which doesn’t bring much to the team except for the occassional supply drops from specials (only IF appropriate talent was taken), and hordeclear with the Grudgeraker. Compared to the Huntsman, RV is very passive ranged class that is mostly oriented towards supporting your team, while having terrible frontline potential, unlike Huntsman which has several weapons to defend himself if need be.
Repeater Handgun is a better anti-special weapon than Crossbow or Longbow IMO, since it easily lets you take out several specials if need be, even without the need to aim for the head, albeit it helps. This is further improved by Huntsman’s ult, which vastly improves it’s damage potential against any elite/special that isn’t Chaos Warrior and refills 8 ammo each time it’s used. Easy to maintain ammo with and use, albeit certainly aimed to be used on-the-run rather than taking your time to place the shots.
Manbow has poor bodyshot Cataclysm breakpoints, yeah, but so does the Longbow/Crossbow if you don’t aim for the head. The only difference in that regard is the ease of use, and if Manbow had breakpoints that enabled 1 shot bodyshot breakpoints, it would be on a stupid level of broken. It still somewhat is on Legend.
The only weapon that truly makes Huntsman “better” against hordes than WS/RV/Sienna is Blunderbuss, and even then, WS still has Hagbane, which is much more flexible of a weapon against everything (which isn’t a bad thing - there should be distinctions between the classes for variety) whereas BH has terrible AoE potential and great single target damage if the player is experienced enough with him to land headshots with Double Shotted, while having a passive with guaranteed crits for both pacing throughout the level and dispatching specials with relative ease mid-fights.
Huntsman’s idea for ammo efficiency is mostly relevant for players who can land headshots and use his specific Lv20 (Makin’ It Look Easy, which works great with RHandgun + Scrounger. Same goes for the Bow in most cases) and/or Lv25 (Shot Crafter, which is a supplement for steady supply of arrows for the bow or Blunderbuss to simply recover from performing the anti-special role from time to time, and even then it isn’t necessary to take it instead of Longshanks) talent.
That said, Huntsman isn’t really excelling at certain roles, but he’s performing them well enough, while also having an aura that helps frontline clear the trash and further improves efficiency of classes such as WHC with whom he has great synergy going on with marking specials/elites, or Shade, that fills the role of boss and frontline elite killing.
I don’t mind the lack of content all that much, and provided FS has recently pointed out they want to take things slow, I wouldn’t expect them to change their policy about this any time soon. The earliest I’d expect any new content or a patch is either mid February, or somewhere, sometime in March.
The point is that now Fatshark can’t balance nothing until season 3. This was the right time to do it. I agree with you, I don’t want a rushed patch… But currently the time between a balancing patch and the following one is too long.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying HS is trash. RV is much worse. But this isn’t enough to make HS a well balanced career.
Rep Gun “wastes” headshot based talents. Anyway, its main problem is the lackness of penetration. It’s a very serious malus.
Moreover trust me: when you have to shoot three bullets to kill a Bestigor, while WS and BH can bodyshot it… It’s not so nice.
I don’t demand that it has to bodyshot every special and every elite… But it can’t remain as now.
Emp Bow is slower and less versatile than Elf Bow and Crossbow… And Emp Bow has (more or less) the same breakpoints (I tested them in the old thread) and a lower DPS! Simply ridicolous.
And if we think about Blessed Shot and Bloodshot, the HS’ situation gets much worse.
Dunno, I hate shotguns in this game. They have been overnerfed. Bad armor damage. Bad monster damage. Short range.
If I have to use them mainly vs hordes (and if the horde is “open”, new problems born) I prefer play as Merc or WHC or Zealot. They melt hordes too… But they are tougher. They have more support abilities. They are better vs specials (thanks Rep Gun or BoP).
I think the later we go in the game’s lifecycle the more samey each career will feel.
I wish I had played at launch.
I played since launch (well, even before that, since I played the beta and all), and I disagree with that sentiment. Characters have never felt more different than they do right now. 2.0 has brought a lot of difference in playstyle between characters. In 1.6 every single character played exactly the same way: you fought by dodgedancing nonstop without bothering with either block or push. This was true for Handmaiden as much as Ironbreaker. 2.0 made way more varied playstyles viable! Playing with a shield on high difficulties is now a thing, and that’s a world of difference from playing with a Rapier. Playing Footknight now feels massively different from playing Pyromancer. And so on. Just because overpowered and unfun playstyles like permaburn permablock wizard are removed doesn’t mean that playstyle diversity is being reduced.
To be honest, while I “feel” a lot of the changes right now, right after playing with the new patch, I will just naturally adapt to the changes without that much thought for the most part. I’m also not concerning myself about what FS could change and focus on what they did change.
I play mostly Slayer and Zealot and am not hit by any changes of some weapons, so I can’t say much about for example Kruber Spear or BW changes. I also rarely play weaves, I’m at 900+h, but legend didn’t seem to get boring (just chill) yet. Helps that I play with friends from time to time.
What I REALLY feel right now though is the change to temp hp. I’ve heard the argument that “Zealot generates a lot of temp hp anyway” for a different discussion. While that’s absolutly true (gotta love playing with 6 stacks of Fiery Faith for the maximum 90% bonus temp hp from Holy Fortitude + the extra 30% from Boon of Shalya if I feel like it) and I get easily 40 or more temp hp from a single Chaos Warrior from Repent! Repent!, it was always a struggle to get or sometimes even just maintain my hp in skaven waves, and did absolutly not get any easier by the nerf to temp hp (100% increased decay ~1/second). This would probably be fine if my team would be nice enough to not kill every single roaming enemy with their ranged weapons while wasting their ammo or if I would be playing on cataclysm, simply because there are more enemies and my team is smarter. But nr. 1 is never going to happen and I like the legend difficulty as it is a challenge, but easy enough to be able to chat with friends a good portion of the time.
I’d much rather have it so you have less temp hp in general, but don’t lose it after every single fight. As this is what I feel like it was supposed to always be. Why say you’re in a great risk at every start of a fight, but after the initial 5 to 15 seconds you’re “swimming in temp hp” as always, when you could say half the max temp hp, but leave the decay as it is. So you have a slight buffer of hp so you can deal with chip dmg, but can’t just ignore everything as you build up enough temp hp to not care at all after these 5 to 15 seconds? Especially with Zealot I always run around with basicly no green hp and with this I always have to worry about the Sienna accidentally killing me between hordes, and while cutting through enemies I’m still as strong as ever with what is basicly infinite temp hp.
Lastly, PLEASE give me back my Slayer super jump! Even though Crunch! is better in general I just loved to jump across the whole screen! ;-;
I agree that they need to fix it somehow.
Can’t reach the fu-kin spearmen with Executioner, it sure is not fun getting poked from out of reach with low dodge count, low dodge range weapons, that should be long reach and still can’t reach trash units.
Chargergoat is fine, so is the standard bearer imo, but Gors, Ungors and Archers are just pure annoyance, If I could, I would remove em from game till fixed and had way more fun.
The paid cosmetics are so fugly. I remember seeing the steam page with them listed and thought “Oh wow, those look so sick and amazing”.
Then I launched the game and actually "previewed them " on the characters. 3-5 dollars to see Sienna wear what looks like an over-sized flaming bucket on her head? Ranger veteran helmet that actually looks like it belongs to iron breaker? The flaming skull for Sienna that has terrible fitting and scaling?
I laughed so hard tears came rolling down my eyes.
And then I thanked Farshark, for at least letting me preview the damn things to realize how ugly the paid cosmetics were, for they could have not added the preview and I would have ended up buying all of them, just to see how bad they look. Thank god they did.
The shame here is with an extremely rich world like End Times, that has such amazing costumes, armors, imagery, references, illustrations, etc etc, we still can’t get paid costumes and hats - which I sooo want to buy with my real money - that even look cool enough to compel me to actually buy them.
It’s so sad…
Bro try THP on cleave. They buffed it back up again and while less potent than on kill it’s much easier to maintain once you have it, and fares much better for Skaven hordes
Except there were new non-premium cosmetics?
???
???
I did, I don’t like it. Well, it doesn’t fit my playstyle and doesn’t seem to fix the problem I have. With Zealot A&F it’s not a question for me, since I focus on getting rid of armored enemies and would suffer between hordes even more, since you can sometimes somewhat keep up temp hp with on kill, because you only need a single kill to stop the decay (it’s more like 2/second instead of 1/second as I wrote yesterday) for 2 seconds. With on cleave you can’t really get these, as even when there are roaming enemies, the team will instantly jump on them or use ranged weapons to get rid of them so you don’t even get that decay reset (2 seconds without decay after getting some). Meaning you are even worse at maintaining your temp hp between hordes, meaning you will, again, start every fight with no temp hp.
This goes for Bilhook, too, but it’s even worse as you only really get a lot temp hp on cleave with it when spamming push attack + light, but that drains your stamina really, really fast. You also don’t even have the “collateral damage” cleave temp hp when aiming for the Stormvermin and hitting some other rats, since Bilhooks combo is hook + heavy and the heavy is a slim vertical attack that doesn’t really hit anything besides the one you want to hit.
I know this is better when playing with Slayer (dual hammer + 1h axe/warpick), since you do get a lot of temp hp from the hordes in a best case scenario, but with all the armor mixed in the hordes so you struggle with cleaving with the dual hammers (you cleave with dual hammer, see armor, switch to 1h axe/warpick, get rid of the armor, switch back to dual hammer, repeat) it’s not ideal in the first place. With the same problems of losing all your temp hp between hordes as I described before.
TLDR: You get more temp hp while fighting the horde that you don’t need anyway and lose the temp hp between hordes even faster then with temp hp on kill. So the exact opposite of what I want.
I get what you’re saying but honestly I think it’s right that temp hp is, well, temporary. You’re not supposed to sit on a comfy cushion of it a whole map and it’s not meant to replace the actual healing items. And yeah you can still generate it pretty fast but now you’re at least at risk at the beginning of an encounter and Zealot has an appropriate amount of risk for his reward IMO.
I get this is very subjective and people are gonna feel vastly different about it, but I’m kind of enjoying how it encourages a faster pace overall to avoid too much thp decay. I’m also enjoying going into every encounter a little more wary and cautious, it fits the atmosphere for me.
Again not saying you’re wrong about anything, just giving my perspective on it.
BW is still insanely strong. Spear is still Kruber’s best weapon. Hagbane is still the best ranged weapon in the game. I don’t see why anyone would complain about any of these changes.
I don’t really agree with all of your career choices here, but I agree with the sentiment that it is just as important to balance under performers as its over performers.
Super agree here. Having the gap between meta weapons and every other weapon be so big encourages running the same builds over and over and it makes the game feel stale. Even 2-3 is kind of a stretch. Dwarf has more like zero weapons. The only character that actually has a decent amount of parity among weapons is the wiz.
Which weapons are bad?
The only bad weapons for me are 1H Axes because they swallow your build and they have a lack of cleave, and the Elite-killing that’s supposed to be their strong point is outshined by everything else. Other than that, I play with every other weapon on Cata and don’t have an issue. Mainly because I actually build around my team and tell them what I’m using.
1H axe is actually a pretty mid-tier weapon.
Off the top of my head, here are the bad weapons:
Mace + Shield
Hammer + Shield
Flail
Elf Greatsword
Great Axe
War Pick
Falchion
These are simply off the top of my head. These aren’t even all the weapons that need buffs. These are just the worst ones. Several of the other weapons need tuned up to be competitive with good weapons.
The elite killing is nowhere near where it needs to be for a weapon with the limitations that 1H axe has, but to say it’s outshined by everything else is just wrong. It’s still above average in elite dps.
Not really having an issue with any of these since the multiple hit THP changes. Some are just only worth using on certain Careers, which I think is fine. Most of the weapons you’ve said are just highly underrated or require specific builds to make them work.
Not had an issue frontlining with these. Stamina/Crit (Swiftslaying), you need to push-attack into the charged slam to do the push > slam combo of the other Shield weapons.
Works fine, especially now THP makes you can have really high survival with it. Just use it like the 1H Mace. It’s just more of a support weapon. It’s also really good with WHC because of the overhead moveset.
Now one of my favourite weapons on Elf because of the ridiculous survival and killing power you get from the fast push-attack + 25% Crit it has. On Shade I run a full frontline build and top melee kills like crazy with the Crit Power Talent. WS it’s a decent survival weapon if you want to drop mobility.
Only worth using as Slayer, but are both insanely strong. Greataxe is one of the most underrated weapons in the game. It can also work as IB with the CDR Talent, but only if you have someone with lots of stagger to float around you constantly. You’ll get taunts up really fast though.
Multiple hit THP, overhead moveset, high attack speed, lights do armour damage. Good mobility. The only downside to this weapon is that you have to run 4 Stamina.
I don’t like weapons that are good at everything, for example; billhook, rapier on whc, a&f, flamesword on bw with famished.
It eliminates all the comp choices that you need to make. i like 1h axe’s, falchion, crowbill type of weapons, they are good at one certain aspect and less good at others.
Also sienna’s melee doesnt look so bad because you can compensate for the lack of weapon uses with your staff, so for example if you have conflag you could go crowbill if you feel like you lack armor dps. except flamesword because right now it affects super armor which it shouldnt.
I agree. I dislike when versatility becomes overtuned. Picking roles and builds to synergize with your team is half of the fun for me. If only they would make the crafting system easier to work with for that.
Oops this was about the Billhook:
Did my challenges for the Skins yesterday. Oh lordy. I have my Special attack bound to a mouse button, so I can skip L1 and go straight to L2 with lots of cleave. Someone could blow up the game if they could be bothered to get it down to muscle memory. It also lets you go straight to H2, so you can spam overheads.