2.1.0.1: only nerf, nerf, nerf. None news. None buff. None tweak

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
21

No argument in general, but there were buffs in this patch as others said.

As predicted during the WOM beta, the whole game is in need of another BBB patch. While every character is deadly enough, there are still a few stragglers coughHuntsmancough and the talent trees are very imbalanced, with only 1 or 2 real build paths for most of them.

This is the cost of changing things for the sake of change.

Every character can devastate everything in skilled hands. I don’t think UC is out of line with anything else.

In fact UC is kind of pathetic next to a melee Pyro build.

22

I presently have no real opinion on cosmetics other than wanting to have existing helmets and hoods to match the armors but i generally agree when it comes to your opinions on the flaws of Fatsharks balancing.

Its good that they nerf overtuned stuff, less good that they leave undertuned stuff for dead though, various talents and particularly weapon traits suffer from this.

And the beastmen…honestly if their mass per unit is going to be so high they need to be fewer because otherwise there is no way to handle them in melee since they´ll just have 2 meatshields soaking all your hits with the other 20 standing inside that same spot are hitting you.

But yet my biggest gripe is the crafting system, far too damn much clicking and spamming required for too little.

4 clicks to open one box, 80 to open 20 then you need to click another 60+ times to scrap everything if you did not like or need it.

23

I agree with everything you said, other than this

I main the Huntsman, and let me tell you, while the spear nerf sucks, if you use him right, you can outclass the other dps classes. Since you can pretty much have infinite ammo on higher difficulties, allowing you to mow down elites and specials with ease

24

Man, I respect your opinion… But have you played enough the other ranged careers?

I completed 100 victories challenge both with HS, WS and BH… And HS has the weakest ammo regen. Don’t get me wrong, you can have infinite arrows, but it’s more complicated. You need skill and luck (headshots and crits).
WS and BH’s infinite ammo are free… You don’t need any effort.

25

You can for sure, and I think huntsman is in a good spot, but that’s true for the other careers too. WS has effectively infinite ammo, and BH has a similar level of sustain to huntsman while also getting that insane boss damage and decent damage resist.

I don’t think huntsman is weak so much as BH puts out way more damage than he should, and hagbane is a thing that exists.

26

But where? When?
Rather they have been indirectly nerfed by gameplay’s changes (stagger system, tHP nerf, dodge nerf).

BrokenWizard is another speech and now she’s gone.

27

Mercenary, WHC, BH, Zealot, IB, WS, FK, Pyro, BW, Handmaiden. All of these careers are are objectively stronger than they were pre-2.0. Mercenary got 40% dmg reduction for 10 seconds for his entire team, more power and more dmg resistance due to reshuffled talents. WHC lost tHP on each elite kill for entire party but instead became a melee beast with great CC. BH objectively got buffed by 30% dmg resistance, and his double shotted now gives him 80% cooldown reduction if headshots. IB got gromril curse and more. I could go on and on about how everyone got massively buffed. That and someone like Shade is still as meta as ever, same with the weapons, except for the fact that power creep happened weapons like axe&falchion, which were previously considered overpowered, are no longer considered so strong despite the fact that it got very minimal changes. It got outclassed by rapier and the new billhook. I could go on and on.

28

About the "BW subject " i think the problem is deeply in the conception the higher weaves and how they makin the difficulty. It should be different balance of heroes talents between the weave mode and the normal runs. I don t mean that they have to do that but the question is here.

29

Merch lost tHP+cd reduction on ult, his strongest combo. BH’s 80% cd reduction was a bug. It should be 40%.
WS lost her passive ammo regen. Slayer and Zealot lost their passive and super good damage reduction. HM lost her buff to power. Shade lost full damage + cd reduction on ult.

Anyway I repeat: the main point is that even if there has been some buff, it’s nothing compared the new harder gameplay.

30

40% dmg reduction for the entire team for 10 seconds is superior, and you get to pick more offensive talents meaning you are stronger in melee than you used to be. The tHP was actually overkill due to how easy it was to get and maintain tHP, a lot of it went to waste. 40% dmg reduction is always good. Mercenary now is objectively significantly stronger.

What do you mean it’s a bug? Looks pretty clear to me, double shotted shoots two shots, and each shot gives back 40% of your cooldown. That and the 30% dmg reduction. Objectively stronger than before.

Her current ammo regen is (for the most part) objectively stronger. Her ult can give back 90% of her ammo. In higher difficulties like Legend and above you’ll always have elites and specials to shoot at. You can trade her health regen for even more cooldown reduction. That and before the current patch, she was completely broken with hagbane as she essentially had infinite ammo with an extremely strong and versatile crowd clearing, crowd controlling weapon that can kill and stagger everything, including bosses.

Zealot lost some of his dmg resistance in exchange for significantly better tHP generation and better melee prowess. Again, practically stronger (that and he was considered overpowered in 1.6, and yet now he’s not, yet he became stronger)

Oh no, she lost her 15% power in exchange for 5% speed. Even though now she has like, what, 15% attack speed with NO negative? And better talents and better dodging with wraith walk? Yeah, again, objectively stronger.

Shade again is as strong and as meta as ever. One of the most fundamentally powerful careers in the game simply because of how she works and the huge ammo sustain she has. DD’s + hagbane Shade is like the most meta build in this entire game and kills everything. Was even more overpowered when ranged weapons have huge cooldown reduction.

In fact, literally every single career in this game got buffed. I am honestly struggling to think of what career became weaker after the new patch. The only one I can think of is Unchained, which lost survivability in terms of her cooldown reduction and overcharge pool, but instead got compensated with better melee prowess with a free 15% attack speed buff and the tHP is nice too. Other than that, legitimately can’t think of a single career that didn’t get a buff, and most careers got a very big and major buff too.

Is this a joke? “nothing compared to the new harder gameplay.” How much harder is it exactly? You can still dodge just fine if you have a head with at least two braincells, all the careers got buffed quite significantly, weapons got powercreeped, stagger at WORST makes it even in terms of damage (when in reality it’s more likely that the stagger bonus makes it significantly easier to kill enemies like elites, since they proportionally didn’t get a big health buff, and chaff is just as easy to kill as ever). So what actually became harder then? My friend who only has 32 hours already plays Legend and gets around 200dmg taken and around 10k dmg dealt. You’re so completely wrong on all levels.

31

It’s a bug because every pellet counts as -40% damage reduction.

Anyway I don’t want go too off topic or start an infinite discussion about every career.

My idea remain that there has been some buff and some nerf, then you can’t say “everything received big buff”.
Moreover, even if you was right, these hypothetical buff are compensate by the much harder gameplay. And this is a fact.

32

There really is no point in ever arguing with you because you don’t present any facts on the “much harder gameplay” when it’s just not true. And then you say stuff like “oh there were plenty of nerfs too” even though again, everyone in the game got buffed one way or another. I think your idea is stupid and you don’t present any arguments to actually back up your opinion.

33

No, that is like the epitome of opinion. If you are comparing Legend difficulty 1.6 with Legend difficulty now than it is far easier. If alone for stagger which overcompensates the slight increase in health for the enemies. Even if you go out of your way and do not stagger anything then it is still easier now.

If you are comparing Cataclysm now with Legend 1.6 … then you are doing it wrong.

34

What? Are you a new player?

  • before WoM you could spam dodge button and you were invincible (now you get damage also while pushing/dodging);
  • stagger system has brought tons of damage reduction for enemies; moreover they are harder to stun;
  • there was more tHP… It was almost permanent;
  • enemies scale with the difficulty. They have better reflexes and they attack faster;
  • final events scale with the difficulty. Every final event now spawns much more enemies;
  • beastmen added. A broken faction that increase the difficulty.

@Adelion I’m comparing 1.6 Legend and 2.0 Legend. And, as said, just facts.
Then I repeat. This is my opinion… You are free to disagree. I don’t like put myself into infinite discussions. I have other things to do during the day.

35

Clearly not considering I know what the talents were in 1.6 and have a lot of experience playing during that time.

No, you weren’t literally invincible, there was just no dodge count and enemies didn’t track you at all so you could avoid damage very easily. And no, you don’t get damaged while pushing, that’s literally false.

2.0 update gave about a 60% health increase to chaff enemies, and around 20% to elites. The stagger bonus gives you up to 40-60% damage bonus, and considering how many sources of stagger there are (numerous abilities, ranged weapons like conflag, hagbane, shields, melee weapons) it realistically made no difference in killing chaff, and made it even easier to kill elites and bosses especially, since they didn’t get a health buff at all or got a smaller one proportionally.

Yeah, I know. I literally mentioned it myself. And yet right now you can still very easily maintain tHP with careers like Mercenary and Zealot. That and many careers got buffed in their killing power, utility and resistance.

I’m like 90% sure they always did. In fact, I’ll up it to 99%.

Incredible, so instead of a pitiful stream of skaven slaves, you now have more similar pressure that you experienced throughout the rest of the mission.

Yes, but this isn’t an intentional fundamental change, everyone knows beastmen are broken, we don’t count bugs and beastmen into the difficulty setting.

No, you’ve said nothing but phallus and ball.

36

I believe the lack of more balance changes is caused by the fact that the beta’s “balance” changes’ purpose was really only aimed at BW’s performance and trying to tweak her in a way that wouldn’t break her, and we (or players that played the beta) all know into what has that escalated.

Some balance outliers like the Kruber’s Spear or DK Slayer were present ever since the release of WoM in August 2019, and I’m honestly not surprised that finally something was done about them. DK is still alive, due to a failed tweak to 2hh attacks that effectively changed the combo from L1 Q L1 Q into L1 L2 Q L1 L2 Q, while the Spear is still a very solid melee crowd control weapon that fits any archetype of Huntsman or Merc, really.

Hagbane wasn’t really nerfed. You could say the same thing about any other weapon that relies on dealing AoE damage, like Sienna’s staves. The AoE action skill generation was nerfed as it was:

  1. Breaking the Shade, effectively making her a WS, except that she had technically superior anti-elite capabilities. Result: character that primarly deals melee single target damage runs on a perpetuum mobile of AoE damage recharging her action skill, which in turns makes her a very potent elite killer with no downsides whatsoever, while providing CC, having great sustain with health-on-kill, as well as being a very flexible boss killer.
  2. Speaking of which, breaking the Waystalker, which could essentially do the same as the Shade, but resetting her ammo count back to 100% every time she casted a good ult (killing 2+) elites. Hagstalker spamming the Hagbane into hordes on high-level play would never run out of ammo, due to the sheer amount of specials or elites mixed in the hordes that could be sniped with the Trueshot Volley.
  3. Breaking the BW, which would obliterate hordes if used in combination with FF + FFA + Kaboom, and enabling the user to cast it again within seconds. This was equally stupid when she has had access to both LF and FF. Abilities that scale with enemy density that desintegrate them aren’t exactly entertaining for other players. Heck, I would kick any BW out of my party using that particular build, because there would be no challenge to face for the rest of the level if that player was competent enough. Call me selfish or whatever, but breaking fun factor of combat in this game for other players is the last thing I wish anyone experienced.

Huntsman is far from being overshadowed by WS and BH. He offers up-front damage and relative safety/flexibility due to his ult working like Shade’s. Moreover, players who can headshot improve Huntsman’s reliability to a great extent. Huntsman also has access to one single best anti-horde weapon in the game if used properly, notably, the Blunderbuss, while having great ammo sustain with or without it. Huntsman also provides a decent aura to the rest of your team, and can fill a lot of niches with his viable ranged options being Repeater Handgun (quick, reliable anti-special/elite), Blunderbuss (rather slow but powerful anti-special/horde) and Manbow (a sharpshooting tool for any purpose other than hordes), each with it’s own gimmicks.

Heck, it’s not like Spear “made” Huntsman - he still is and will be a good career, albeit now without having extreme crowd control melee weapon that creates space, (still) benefits from stagger tHP, and is relatively good at killing elites. Huntsman shouldn’t have a weapon that can stagger everything in front of him to create space - he’s a ranged focused backline characteer that should rely greatly on good positioning, albeit his ult redeems him from not doing that. Sometimes.

I don’t care much for the paid cosmetics except for a few that I liked and bought them for the sake of supporting Fatshark, because I think that the particular pieces I bought were a piece of good content and should be the better, future standard for paid cosmetics.

No new free stuff? There’s plenty of hats in the game files still, and I’m not surprised they haven’t been released yet, since there wouldn’t be anything to add to the future patches if that was the case. I’d much rather FS focus on producing high quality cosmetic stuff and release in-game-files cosmetics in monthly rotations. Maybe that will be the case - I honestly don’t know. We’ve got a very solid map - that’s one of the things that matters for the longevity of the game, and there’s more to come this year.

Weapon Traits in VT2 have been flawed ever since release and it’s not just the case of RC/RS being bad and repeatedly nerfed (unfortunately due to Wigglemancer being a thing). I’m eagerly awaiting time when a balance beta will launch and address them in one way or another.

I’ll say this in conclusion: Balancing VT2 around top level of play/meta is the ONLY way to keep combat fresh and make people come up with different builds, and while nerfed things may not be as effective when it comes to top performance on Legend+/Cata+, it should and will not impact lower difficulties nearly as much. When one thing is nerfed, another one comes out on top, while theorycrafting thrives and eventually comes up with something effective and unique, and sometimes even broken beyond measure. This will probably be the case for BW as well, considering she had one very strong build that noone payed attention to due to sheer stupidity and ease of play when Hot Buns build was brought and exploited in the meta.

37

You can accept the truth or not, you are free to have your opinion. I just bring facts written into patch notes. It’s not necessary to be salty.

38

o k

39

So are you saying that dodge into 1.6 was not easier?

The only fact is that now we have less tHP… if you can be always full tHP or not, it can’t be proved.

Read the patch notes. It has been added (or “buffed”) with WoM.

Then it’s harder.

I will be happy when Beastmen will be nerfed. For now, we can’t say if Fatshark will nerf them or not (or when). We are talking (also) about bad balance, not bugs.

I repeat. I don’t want to be rude. You are free to have a different opinion. I don’t want to convince you. But these are facts written into patch notes.

40

sigh
I dunno, am I or am I not? You could also read better.
You can still dodge very effectively.

Less tHP on certain careers and all careers got buffed in general as well.

Enemies were always more aggressive in higher difficulties, it’s just that tracking was added into that equation as well.

In the end events, yes, but compared to the rest of the mission? Eh, sometimes.

Whether they’ll get nerfed or not is unknown, but Fatshark will 100% change how common they are and make them rarer.

So nothing about this then?

or this?

You’re literally wrong on all these points. Gameplay mechanics were made more difficult (that is to say, only dodge and enemy tracking), but the big buffs and powercreep arguably made 2.0 Legend easier than it was in 1.6, and the fact that you say that “oh there were nerfs too, careers in 1.6 were stronger or whatever” is complete nonsense.