Elf abilties underwhelming

Hello!

So since patch 1,0,8,1 was launched i have been playing around to try and see whats different…and as someone who enjoyed playing Kerillian i kinda got sad : (

Kruber Huntsman has been buffed, Sienna has been buffed&nerfed, Saltz and Bardin both seems to have gotten buffs.

But Kerillian? Both waystalker and shade has gotten nerfed, only a few of the bugs have been fixed and some of those bugs are actually what is breaking Handmaiden and some of her weapons(as in making them really hard to work with).

Waystalker F cant even kill more than 2 stormvermin at once, or a bunch of slaverats, sometimes it bugs entirely and doesnt hit anything.

It also has a extremely painful bug in which you press F and she draws the bow but holds it and doesnt fire, you cant switch weapons or even fire the arrows you drew until like 1-2 seconds later… i have actually downed several times because of this trying to use it as a shotgun in melee x)

Shade? Shade seems to have gotten nerfs all over and it only appears worse because huntsman got buffed, dual weapons dont seem to kill Chaos warriors at all, gone is the double chaos kill…but whats depressing is that instead she even fails to kill lone chaos warriors sometimes, i have no idea why.

The backstabb damage doesnt seem to apply at all.

Handmaiden,her ulti seems to stagger a bit more which is nice…but you are still downed before you have any idea whats going on if a packmaster or disabling special appears, you are fragile with no damage resistance and seem entirely reliant on the spear to keep outa harm.

But the spear on the other hand is bugged and weak, it still has a massive issue with phantom attacks, both heavy and light, phantom block/push/swipe and to top things off…its armor pen sucks awfully hard.

Oh and the phantom swing issue exist on a few other weapons as well, i had it happen on the 1 hand sword, the 2 handed sword (along with the ever present block/push bug) and on her SnD.

Spear takes 3 heavy attacks just to down a stormvermin, if you get 3 of these in a melee you actually struggle like hell to accomplish anything more than surviving.

If enemies with shields appear you have to ulti to clear them in the next few minutes.

Meanwhile we have kruber&bardin downing chaos warriors by themselves, not to mention stormvermin.

Heck even bounty saltz can do it, although only with his ability…which pyromancer also does come to think of it.

Meanwhile, the elf assassin struggles to kill a single one, the elf archer looks at huntsman Kruber and wonders what she was doing the last few centuries to become so hopelessly incompetent compared to a human.

Handmaiden is praying to all her gods for a weapon that actually lets her act like a frontliner or at least fight on par with halberd kruber.

I wont ask that waystalker be allowed to wipe a entire patrol with her F alone like in beta, i wont ask that shade be allowed to double kill chaos warriors or that Handmaiden even be able to solo chaos warriors.

But i really think it´d be nice if waystalker F was able to kill 3 or even 4 stormvermin given its pretty long cooldown…or just 3 along with a lot of bugfixing.

Shade could really stand to have her dual wield power back, honestly only using glaive feels so slow and stale after a while, not at all fast paced or precise like an assassin would be.

On that note…dual daggers are still beyond awful when dealing with more than 2 enemies.

Handmaiden…either buff the daylight out of her or bugfix and buff the spear´s anti armor a bit.

Elf is really starting to feel kinda bad post all those nerfs, or rather she feels terrible when placed next to Kruber and the others stronger careers, she doesnt even have a single one that is even close to comparable to those.

Dont go leaving heroes for dead :(:cry:

1 Like

??? I’ve been deleting entire patrols on my own while my team was kiting them, dual-daggers are required however and the learning curve to stay alive is huge. The only problem with shade is that they capped boss-damage to a way low amount forcing you to take concoction + decanter if you want to deal with a boss reasonably quick.

This feels true for some reason, so I’ve been resorting to frontal headshots instead, which Sword and Dagger only does on second charged attack so for elite-killing I prefer dual-daggers.

Try sword-and-dagger, nimble, lots of cleave, headshots if you do happen to need it, pair this with longbow with headshot-ammo for specials or repeater crossbow if you aren’t good at quick headshots. (decent bossdamage too, but runs out of ammo quickly so use conservatively.)

Handmaiden ulti with stealth is terrific and I’m sure they added a dodge-state to the movement of it as well. never use it in general without your melee weapon up however as stealth can sometimes be slightly buggy.

Are you running + damage modifiers to the creatures you want to kill? And 2 stormvermin at once isn’t bad for a fire-and-forget ability. But damage breakpoints are a thing.

In general a lot of nerfs to the shade in 1.0.8 got reverted in 1.0.8.1 which resulted in a net buff for the shade in my opinion. That said spear does apparently seem a bit buggy, but again try to look for damage breakpoints because I’ve been killing stormvermin just fine with it, CW’s are a problem however.

Shield enemies are currently an issue for literally almost anyone and a great point of frustration in the game, not limited to elf however.

This is simply untrue, I’ve had a dozen runs on legend since the latest patch and have been killing most every CW before the party had to worry about them getting hit. While not trying to sound demeaning I highly recommend checking over your properties and traits and testing some more on dummies, it sounds like a hitch in the learning curve.

Dual-daggers are meant to be a case of forsaking cleave for speed and single-target damage, which this patch did an excellent job of achieving in my opinion. Were it not for the downright obnoxious boss damage-caps. Once you learn how to dance around a horde while throwing in a few blocks and pushes you’ll be eating up an entire horde on your own with dual daggers, but I can’t recommend it to people that have latency or issue keeping up with what’s going on around them (especially beside or behind them. The AI director has a thing for sending 1 rat around to stab you in the ass.)

4 Likes

Did I miss something? I recall Shade nerf, but not WS. And even that was almost completely reverted.

Sienna’s ult can’t kill more than one SV and has the same pattern. Still one of the best ults in game.

I din’t play much since 1.0.8.1, but I recall 1-shoting CWs easily. You’re just doing something wrong.

Also what “all over” nerfs are you talking about. That’s exaggeration at least, manipulation at worst.

It surely works, how else would I get my ammo back.

I don’t recall any official buffs to it.

What does that have to do with Handmaiden ult and balance in general?! There is a lot of fragile characters, that can be killed by specials, so what?! Btw HM has 125 health, so she’s not even the most fragile.

As well as WHC, Merc, Shade and ALL the ranged classes. Also FK is not that tanky tbf. And elf has one the the best melee weapon kit to keep her alive, inferior only to almighty Halberd. And HM also has a crazy 40% ammo pool bonus, almost as good as ranged. And stamina regen and dash range - why did you omit that? Manipulating yet again?

Also, why exactly spear?

Why use it then? If it’s bug, use something else? You’re using one of the two Kerillian bugged weapons, than complaining, that it’s bugged and making the conclusion about the whole career based on it. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

No, you also call it weak, but still use it, and still make conclusions based on that weapon.

Never had phantom swings on any of those weapons. There is a list of 5 weapons, that have phantom swings: axe n shield, executioner’s sword, 1h axe, spear and pike. The list remains the same since beta though, and those weapons u’ve listed don’t fall into it.

Again, there is more than one weapon available to elf.

Killing Shieldvermin and killing CWs is very different matter. Of all the people u’ve listed only Sienna can deal with them more or less consistently, others struggle as much as the elf.

What?! Just what?! No comments.

Have you tried Glaive. I heard it was the best CW remover, and I also heard every elf can use it.

But you actually right. Ranged careers lately have become too good at removing CWs. Though I think it’s not WS, that have to be buffed to their level, it’s the opposite.

Even the almighty Pyro can only kill 1 SV, and WS can already do more than that. I don’t think that her ult needs to be buffed.

Wasn’t it fixed in 1.0.8.1? I should double check, but I think it was fixed.

Yeah, but they’re now the best or second best single target weapon in the game, so it kinda seems balanced. Also not 2, but 3, and only raiders. Weaker enemies can be dealt with easily.

What’s your problem with spear? Also HM is one of the best and one of the most balanced characters in the game. Just take invisibility at 25 and practice her more. And forget about spear - suggest using glaive or 2h sword with her, but DnD and SnS also work.

Elf hasn’t been nerfed lately that much, please, staph. Also yes, if you compare elf with Huntsman - the most OP career there is now - it’s weaker. Not terrible, just weaker. Compared to other careers - no, not at all. Even BH or Sienna are not that much stronger and can be beaten by skill.

In conclusion:
There is a lot of data manipulation, false data and just weird generalization (career being judged by weapon) in this post. Moreover, I can barely agree even with a couple arguments, that are given here. And I also completely disagree with the general idea of the post.

I think elf - is the most balanced character there is - not to strong, not too weak. Every Kerillian career has a role, a purpose on a battlefield, has it’s weak and strong sides, requires skill to play and, what’s most important, is fun!

So please let elf be, at least for now!

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Was thinking the same thing about WS in that I was pretty sure it hadn’t been nerfed or, if it had, I haven’t felt it.

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HM ultimate is excellent at horde clear.
DD is excellent at building ultimate and 2 shots SV with charge attack, 1 shot with crit.

What is the problem?

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imo this is a git gud thread

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I honestly tho, I wish Handmaidens ult was on shade sometimes. On a class where position is SO IMPORTANT I don’t understand why she got the one enemy assassination thing. Like… great I killed a chaos warrior. With the PASSIVE you could just do that by dashing behind it and boom crit = insta kill. I literally only use Shades ult to revive my team… it feels so wrong.

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Pretty sure murderous prowess does not consider chaos warriors man sized.

More like indirect nerfs, but longbow and some melee weapons seem to have been nerfed, i run mine with bonus armor pen but instead of the usual 2 bodyshots it usually takes it now sometimes takes 3.

Both Glaive and wardancer blade both seem to have had their crit chance nerfed although that was a while ago but it still hurts.

Sienna´s ulti does waaay more damage on bosses and it even outright deals like 95% health of a chaos warrior.

Kerillian needs her F and like 4-7+ longbow headshots to kill one at range,whats killing 2 stormvermin at once compared to that?

Her F also kills less slaverats from what i could tell, and its really damn bugged ontop.

I din’t play much since 1.0.8.1, but I recall 1-shoting CWs easily. You’re just doing something wrong.

I have no idea, before the patch i could walk up behind them with SnD and just heavy attack to kill them and any small mob nearby, now if there is even 2 slaverats nearby then the chaos warrior doesnt seem to ever die.

Also what “all over” nerfs are you talking about. That’s exaggeration at least, manipulation at worst.

That cleave nerf on her dual weapons poping outa stealth is a huge deal, and its still there from what i can tell, it affects her main job, her ability to clear waves and her ability to kill even bosses or specials sitting in the middle of other enemies.

Once tried getting a packmaster moving with a small group of slaverats, stood infront of it in stealth and as it was passing through me i used a heavy attack, all the slaverats died but the packmaster survived with little health and instantly grabbed me.

It surely works, how else would I get my ammo back.

The backstabb procs but it doesnt deal damage for some reason by what i could tell, attacking enemies from behind or front doesnt seem to matter…that or it has gotten bugged much like waystalker F for some reason, some other guy in the thread had noticed it as well.

I don’t recall any official buffs to it.

Did they actually write out stuff? They bugfixed hagbane and all its traits but it wasnt written anywhere.

I just happened to notice because while it knocks over smaller enemies as usual it also knocks over those shirtless tall chaos warriors with axes, rothelms or marauders or whatever they were called.

What does that have to do with Handmaiden ult and balance in general?! There is a lot of fragile characters, that can be killed by specials, so what?! Btw HM has 125 health, so she’s not even the most fragile.

Point is, handmaiden doesnt have any damage resistance, and her dash is prone to place her in a spot where she is much more vulnerable to them which makes it hard to actually use it. You might not see a packmaster jumping down from a roof/cliff so you ulti to clear a wave and all of a sudden you are grabbed and getting pulled away from your team through enemies.

Her ulti is a huge gamble to use :frowning:

As well as WHC, Merc, Shade and ALL the ranged classes. Also FK is not that tanky tbf. And elf has one the the best melee weapon kit to keep her alive, inferior only to almighty Halberd. And HM also has a crazy 40% ammo pool bonus, almost as good as ranged. And stamina regen and dash range - why did you omit that? Manipulating yet again?

Handmaiden is melee! Why isnt she as durable as FK or unchained? Heck even slayer seems to take less damage in melee per hit from what i could tell.

Stamina regen is only ever useful against smaller enemies, one big or a elite one and your entire stamina pool is gone all the same which makes it a very irrelevant stat most of the time <.<

I can block smaller hordes just fine even with it.

Also, why exactly spear?

Why use it then? If it’s bug, use something else? You’re using one of the two Kerillian bugged weapons, than complaining, that it’s bugged and making the conclusion about the whole career based on it. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

No, you also call it weak, but still use it, and still make conclusions based on that weapon.

I made a conclusion that given her lack of damage resistance and the risk involved in using her ulti she needs a weapon with greater reach to not get caught or take as much damage, which makes the main choice her spear…but that kinda crumbles given above reasons.

Never had phantom swings on any of those weapons. There is a list of 5 weapons, that have phantom swings: axe n shield, executioner’s sword, 1h axe, spear and pike. The list remains the same since beta though, and those weapons u’ve listed don’t fall into it.

Several people had it happen on the ones i listed as well but much less frequently.

I´ve had slaverats stand directly infront of me on the 1hand, i attack and it doesnt hit while the slaverat hits me instead, and its push-swipe attack also seemingly doesnt hit at times but since hardly anyone uses it im not surprised it wasn’t noticed.

Again, there is more than one weapon available to elf.

But thats moot since Handmaiden herself seems designed around the spear.

Killing Shieldvermin and killing CWs is very different matter. Of all the people u’ve listed only Sienna can deal with them more or less consistently, others struggle as much as the elf.

Slayer bardin, bounty saltz,zealot saltz(not sure) huntsman kruber, waystalker/shade and even halberd kruber all seem to do it quite easily.

And there is no weapon worse than the spear that i know of when it comes to shieldvermin except dual swords x)

What?! Just what?! No comments.

Shade stealth attack hitbox seems to be bugged, if the special moves with a small group then it seems to distribute the damage accross the group rather than hit everyone for the same amount which often results in the small mobs dying and the big ones surviving.

Hunsman>waystalker in all ways except killing shieldvermin…when her ulti doesnt bug entirely.

Have you tried Glaive. I heard it was the best CW remover, and I also heard every elf can use it.

Everyone tells me to use glaive on all her careers…i am kinda getting tired of it ._.

And waystalker cant pull it of anywhere near reasonably fast enough as long as there is even a few small enemies around the warrior.

But you actually right. Ranged careers lately have become too good at removing CWs. Though I think it’s not WS, that have to be buffed to their level, it’s the opposite.

Well i didnt ask that she be allowed to do it, i only asked that she instead be allowed to kill like 3 stormvermin per ultimate, each shot is the same as a longbow one and given its ability to either lock down a target (which doesnt even work at times) or just fire without aiming i think it´d be fine that if you dont aim down then all bolts go for different targets and deal a headshot.

Seems fair enough with everyone else either melting chaos warriors, bosses or entire patrols(not chaos ones), or a mix of them.

Even the almighty Pyro can only kill 1 SV, and WS can already do more than that. I don’t think that her ult needs to be buffed.

Pyro deals waaaay more damage on her fireball, and it ignores armor too meaning it hurts chaos warriors and bosses much much more, seems like a fair tradeoff.

Wasn’t it fixed in 1.0.8.1? I should double check, but I think it was fixed.

Cleave outa stealth still doesnt seem to work <.<

Yeah, but they’re now the best or second best single target weapon in the game, so it kinda seems balanced. Also not 2, but 3, and only raiders. Weaker enemies can be dealt with easily.

What’s your problem with spear? Also HM is one of the best and one of the most balanced characters in the game. Just take invisibility at 25 and practice her more. And forget about spear - suggest using glaive or 2h sword with her, but DnD and SnS also work.

I think i wrote it but its bugged, really bugged, and Handmaiden seems balanced around the spear.

What i ask is that either spear be fixed or that handmaiden be made less reliant on it…2handed sword does however work but the still present block/push bug also makes it really frustrating.

SnS are way too damn horrible with armor, DnD lacks way too much waveclear for a constant frontliner, if you have to constantly run away rather than slowly move back then your job as a frontline is questionable <.<

Elf hasn’t been nerfed lately that much, please, staph. Also yes, if you compare elf with Huntsman - the most OP career there is now - it’s weaker. Not terrible, just weaker. Compared to other careers - no, not at all. Even BH or Sienna are not that much stronger and can be beaten by skill.

Longbow nerf, melee weapons critchance nerf, cleave nerf, handmaiden core weapon bugged and she overall lacks reliability as a frontline.

In conclusion:
There is a lot of data manipulation, false data and just weird generalization (career being judged by weapon) in this post. Moreover, I can barely agree even with a couple arguments, that are given here. And I also completely disagree with the general idea of the post.

I wrote what i experienced while playing, if you have a problem feel free to go and try them <-<

I think elf - is the most balanced character there is - not to strong, not too weak. Every Kerillian career has a role, a purpose on a battlefield, has it’s weak and strong sides, requires skill to play and, what’s most important, is fun!

Being balanced seems fine at first but when so many others are OP it quickly becomes stifling.

So please let elf be, at least for now!
[/quote]

I´ll consider dropping my requests if the others are nerfed down to a equivalent level…but i do think that no one actually enjoys perfect balance all that much, what people want is a powertrip which is why they play the OP stuff while leaving the rest for dead.

I personally prefer my stuff slightly OP but not that much,and certainly, not “balanced” while so many others are OP, that just feels pitiful.

you’re playing the class wrongly then

shade’s ability murders maulers and stormvermin, gives a lot of breathing space for your team when they’re faced with horde + multiple elites. if you’re dual wielding, you should always try to kill 2x stormvermin, berserkers or maulers at the same time. chaos warriors are a big problem in legend when combined with other enemies. it’s also possible to slay 2x chaos warriors at the same time, provided you are keeping track of their hp - they both need to be wounded enough to be able to die by 1 sword/dagger. when you do pull it off it is very satisfying.

it’s kinda obvious u haven’t played enough if you don’t know that the passive doesn’t kill chaos warriors. also, getting behind elites to crit them is a thing about this class that many people don’t abuse (stack crit and quick weapons and you can slaughter many distracted elites without using ult)

it’s also the only class that can regenerate ammo by melee. (along with shotgun builds i guess) i can take the shade into a ‘no pickups’ deed and still be able to shoot any specials that pop up. learning to regen ammo on any mob for the shade is a skill that needs to be learned. dual wield gives 2x ammo per heavy strikes on mobs.

tldr pls train more on shade read stuff watch vids before posting about the class.

Longbow has been nerfed, although its mainly only noticeable on stormvermin bodyshots, then 2handed weapons have gotten their critchance nerf at some point back which affects…well melee.

I didnt really comment on it back then as i was busy with waystalker but i realized that kinda hurts all her careers afterwards but in my haste wrote waystalker rather than elf overall.

Her ulti is a huge gamble and very unbecoming of a frontline is my problem…you can dash to clear a wave only to get instantly downed by some special jumping out …you know they wont stop in progress attacks just because you stealth still <.<

And Dual daggers are definitely not frontline weapons at all…if you wish to play with those isnt she just a alternative version of shade?

That passive of hers doesnt consider chaos warriors to be man sized x)

Well that or the poor guy has a real problem with his teams, i sometimes get people who seemingly drop dead in the first melee and each time post then too x)

In those teams shade really feels hopeless as you cant leave them for 2 seconds without someone dying.

But, have you noticed bugs with her backstabb damage? For me it doesnt seem to apply many times, and where i used to be able to kill a chaos warrior with SnD heavy from stealth i suddenly struggle to do it, if they are alone it usually works but at times if there are slaverats or something by them it doesnt seem to work.

Same for stuff like packmasters moving inside a larger group of slaverats etc.

Handmaiden weak? Are we talking about the class that gets +15% damage, has stagger-dash with invisibility and can one-shot Stormvermin without critting?

Unplayable! /s

If you want to mainly horde clear, use the spear. Otherwise, DD and SnD are excellent choices. Learn how to dodge during horde attacks, quickly dash through small hordes and charge attack the heads of Stormvermin. Very fast paced, very fun gameplay.

shade isn’t a good class to help people who have poor positioning. she’s not a tank. i’ve learned from a lot of hard lessons that you have to choose your battles wisely (i used to rush to somebody’s rescue when they get surrounded, then i’d get hit because i’ll be out of position as well) my role as a shade is to remove elites/specials and let the horde clearers to their work effectively. horde = ammo and temp hp for me.

this is because you NEED to ensure that the first target your stealth attack hits is the one you want to kill (per weapon). if there’s a slave rat or something else in the way of your swing, it’s gonna be wasted on that first. daggers are more effective at this because it’s an overhead swing and pretty accurate, but swords have an angled swipe. if you are using swords or SnD, cancel and don’t swing if you are unsure, wait for a better opportunity for a clear swing. also, you need dual strike on full hp chaos warrior to kill, 1 strike on chaos warrior + 1 strike wasted on a nearby slave rat doesn’t work

if i spot that it will be a panic mode to push, draw my xbow and unload on that sucker. they are dangerous as hell hiding in hordes if i’m not paying attention!

You’ve got to joking… I spend nearly all my time on WS/Shade, I think I got her to level 80. She is still one of the best classes in the game. And her ult does not have a long cool down and the damage is fine.

Run the regen talent that gives you back ammo as well. Stack crit on everything you can and get scrounger on your bows. You will never run out of ammo. Make sure you have your bow out and not your melee weapon when you fire your special to trigger the scrounger trait. When hordes spawn, they tend to run at you in a straight line until they get close, just hold right click and fire into them, multiple kills per arrow and ammo back.

Glaive got nerfed a bit but it’s still amazing at clearing hordes. Get the swift slaying trait on it and you can literally just run right into the horde and kill everything. Not to mention it staggers storm vermin with the normal left click. Charged attack still hits really good damage on crits.

I tend to switch to Sword and dagger for shade because the glaive assassinate damage is shït right now. But even running the glaive, you can 1 shot chaos warriors with her ult. I’ve taken down chaos patrols by kiting them and using the second charge attack of the Sword and dagger. Use your ult to get out of trouble when you get cornered and then double assassinate two of the chaos warriors. Always try and use the second charged attacked of the sword and dagger for assassinates. Also, dodge… do it as much as you can. And her perk for 20% extra dodge helps a lot.

None the less, she’s still a great class and doesn’t need and buffs.

EDIT: I’m curious, are you playing end game with 600 power? Or are you still gearing up, I’m saying all this from an endgame point of view.

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I may have misread but did you mean non-headshots? Headshots still and have always been a one hit kill for me.

Yep, went and thought about writing bodyshot rather than headshot but ended up writing headshot anyway…inner grammar nazi was asleep x)

Ah ok that makes more sense, thanks. I kick myself if I miss a headshot so with that, combined with her high crit rate, I just never noticed.

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