The game feels much more comfortable and Beastmen are not so frustrating to fight anymore. There are a lot more fixes are waiting out there to be implemented, yes. But now I just want to thank the team for the game is fun again, and not painful. It is nice to know that you actually see through our suggestions and feedback. Please do more of it, some ideas here are just brilliant.
We are mostly complaining and demanding fixes in here, so I decided it is time to acknowledge your hard work with the gratitude.
Thank you for bringing me my joy back!
Weāll been looking for your new updates
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Beastmen didnt need nerf to amount rest is ok, and new colors are way better but i would throw old colors into possibility to spawn too
Exactly, the game was just fine pre 2.012, they got everything right with previous balancing patches. Yeah, Ungors were a bit annoying sometimes, but at least you had to fight beastmen a bit differently - the challenge was unique.
Anyway, once I started to have fun even with ranger vet on legend (still not a fan, though, he is pretty bad when it comes to ranged damage with non-DLC weapons) the game suddenly got easier for no apparent reasonā¦
Well, at least it still is pretty damn fun, too bad some classes have their talent sets super-effective only with certain weapons, while no complete build works with others - f.e. foot knight is pretty much build to use sword and board nowadays.
I agree with @Mentis . Every nerf done has been necessary and precious. There still are some work needed about Beastmen, they still have some unfair things compared with other faction, but this has been a good step forward.
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I guess iām happy with the nerfs, although iād hoped for more lateral changes. The fact that they were so much more dangerous than skaven or chaos(which are, generally speaking, filler on legendary and below) meant that they obviously needed changes, but more bugfixes could have helped with understanding what exactly needed changing overall - if perhaps the factions needed to meet somewhere in the middle instead of reducing beasts down to filler with the rest. At the very least if itās too much they can always backpedal which is nice, but I imagine this will be better long-term anyway just for retaining a playerbase given their terrible reception.
Itās a shame, because the only real lose-state in the game right now is just to get overwhelmed all at once and beastmen were very good at that, and if you lose that then events are going to be the only challenging portions of most legendary runs and below. The patch notes implied they were looking at those, too, so after all these growing pains weāre going to have more or less ended up back where we started, only now some careers are just plain worse.
Itās too bad they couldnāt have gone farther with the original beta concepts. Tougher enemies could have been great with fewer enemies and a reduced reliance on temp hp as a mechanic. Something between the first game and where the game is now would have been awesome. For me, anyway.
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Id kind of hoped that they would have toned down some of the beastmen and lifted up some Skaven and chaos. It was the asymmetry the inconsistency of game play that was a throw for me.
Still invisible things popping into existence and now it seems there is a weird patrol kinda perma bugged on Athel but maybe I was unluckky for three runs.
edit after reading patch notes. (not just playuing)
Reducing density of Gors makes sense but why also reduce HP? (Breakpoitns maybe)
Standard Bearer radius felt ok it was their ability to position outside of map that frustrated me.
I have noticed no difference in archers there are still a billion of them shotting from so far away.
Ungors feel entirely meaningless now, which is a fault of their original design imho. Hitting between enemies was never a thing they did.
I guess we will see if beastmen represent any significant difference to existing design in the mid term.
Notably Cata has taken a massive difficulty drop with this patch or I had a few easy runsā¦ hard to say ona few hours playtime.
And also for this reason Beasmen needed a big nerfā¦ We canāt have a faction that is a ālose stateā. Beastmen must be on the same Skaven/Chaos level.
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Man, Iām sorry to say this, but we played a different game. Ungors hit me behind hyper density, totally invisible. I couldnāt see and dodge most of their attacks.
Also the Skaven and Chaos low tier seem āmeaninglessāā¦ Because they are meant to be that. They are just ānumbersā.
Beastmen must not be specials just because they are the new entry. They must be strong as the other factions, but different (and I think thanks Bestgor charge, enemiesāmass, banner, archers and the numerous ambushes, they seem to me enough different).
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Never hit ābetweenā always through
I struggle to agree on that one. To me , beastmen felt like the strong brute force (compensating for the fact that this race lacks disabler type specials).
It will need more time and testing but in the end i dont want to face cannonfodder beastmen. Thaths what skaven are for ā¦ weak but in huge masses. Chaos would be the middlegound between Skaven and Beastmen.
Why would i need a new faction in the game if they all are basically the same level of challenge. I personally want that each race has their own unique challenges , some harder than others and not everything sharing the same spot on the tier.
Donāt argue over semantics, they mean the same thing.
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@geekhaven I meant exactly ābehindā. Every enemy can hit us between hyperdensity (and this already is bad)ā¦ but spear guys, thanks their long range and their ābehaviorā, could hit us directly āout of the hordeā.
If it doesnāt happen to you, Iām happy for youā¦ but for me, it was a problem.
@LightKross donāt get me wrong, you are obvly free to dislike this, I donāt want to convince youā¦ but here we are talking about how the game works, not about opinions. Vermintideās factions are meant to have pro and cons. This means that every faction gives to us a different challenge, but these challenges must be on the same level. We canāt have a faction that transforms Legend in Legend+ and Cata in Cata+.
Before this patch, Beastmen werenāt only a āstrong brute forceā, they were āeverythingā. Beastmen had more speed, more mass, more damage, more toughness, more agility (they can attack while climbing, for example), more rangeā¦ but they were not less numerous. To not talk about their color, various bugs, the banners, etc etc. Moreover we must not forget that, other factionsā specials, spawn also during Beastmen.
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I respect this thought process, because the disparity is/was totally obvious between factions and needed adjusting for sure. That said, my point is more that beastmen were the only thing, events(and maybe specials if you have a really bad team comp) aside, keeping the game difficult at any level besides cataclysm, and even events are being inevitably gutted. Weāre heading back towards the pre-WoM experience; the two most powerful careers in the lobby casually destroying everything while the other two watch. You could certainly pay for cataclysm, although these changes are affecting that difficulty, too, and I do think itās kind of sketchy to have to pay for the game to properly challenge a half-decent player.
The problem is either the game is miserably oppressive with its enemy designs and events or there is no difficulty because of how the game is designed at a fundamental level; there are too many enemies, too much of a reliance on temp hp and infinite ammo, etc. Youād have to completely overhaul the game in order to actually properly balance the experience, so itāll probably never happen to avoid even more backlash. I just donāt feel like itās right for VT2 to only have one real difficulty when Deep Rock Galactic and even the first Vermintide still feel like a challenge to some extent on lower hazard levels. The beta just didnāt go far enough with its ideas.
I disagree. If they had attacked between mobs that would be ok, dangerous but fair. you could validate where the attacks were coming from and with skill predict them. But through enemies they are not within visible site of the player they are for all intents and purposes invisible mobs.
Overall, I was okay with how the Beastmen were. I actually liked it more when the Ungor were the majority of the hordes and whatnot back in the initial release during the beta. Sure the spears are a bit more annoying to deal with, but they were squishy guys that could be cleaved through like the skavenslaves, clanrats and fanatics. Having the Gors be the majority of the hordes, especially with the numbers they came in, became problematic for non-hardcore groups to deal with. At least from what I saw and heard when talking to pals I made in game.
With the changes they made to the Ungor spear timing before I think having them as the majority of hordes again would have maybe been fine enough. However, if the majority of the playerbase is fine/happy with how things are now then Iām fine with it too. Having alternative means to increase the difficulty is always better than making the default difficulty too high and frustrating too many people.
LOL, Cata QP win rate from 40% to 95% in
Just
One
Patch!
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Yeah its disgusting how ease they are right now
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Guys, if Cata win rate has gone from 40% to 95%, itās an evidence that Beastmen were too strong (compared with other factions). Do you want an harder game? Itās your legit taste, no doubts, but you canāt say that the nerf is wrong. Vermintideās factions are meant to have pro and cons, while Beastmen totally destroyed the others two.
Anyway, to me, Beastmen still seem stronger than the other factions, Dark Omens still seems one of the hardest mapsā¦ and I still find that most players canāt handle even Legend (not that there is something wrong).
Oh, I understood what you mean. Well, that Cataclysm should not be locked behind a pay-wall, I totally agree (and I already bought the DLC).
Apart this, as I wrote above speaking in general, if you want an harder game, itās your legit taste (on condition that the difficulty doesnāt come from āunfair thingsā, like a faction that overshadows the other ones)ā¦ but honestly I donāt feel the game too easy. I still find a lot of players that canāt handle even Legend. And we must not forget that, besides Cataclysm, there are Twitch Mode and mods.
Then I know, you would want a less āsmash-buttonsā game. With less enemies, less spamming, where every move must be calculatedā¦ honestly I donāt know if I would like it or notā¦ but it would be a totally different game. I donāt think itās āpossibleā apply these changes (as you have said).
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I think itās fine if they arenāt perfectly balanced vs other factions, but the level of difference was way too huge. It seems much more reasonable now.
Beast men are still meat walls in cata. Nerf the overall HP and cata will be golden.
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