Where are the balance patches?

When the Moonfire Bow released, shortly after i opened a thread here stating with numbers that the Moonfire Bow was obviously overpowered, in the hopes that you will actually change it. But what did you do instead? You released more overpowered weapons and even one clearly overpowered career. Granted, most of it belongs to the elf, but that is not the topic here.

Frankly, i stopped playing the game shortly after you released SoTT, because the game just became pathetic. Still bought the WP though and i couldnt even get myself to play more than two matches. The game is in an absolutely disastrous state balance wise and you obviously dont care. I am getting strong DoW 1 vibes where we had a gamebreaking bug with the Sisters of Battle for more than 6 months and the developer just didnt care. Obviously, because the fix for that bug was also the last update for the game.

This is ridiculous. Why are you so inconsistent? Dont tell me you have problems because of Covid, your job is one of the rare ones that can actually be done from home properly. Other developers are still supporting their games properly too.

You have obviously learned very little from V1 and V2, so i can safely assume you will fail again with Darktide too?

Seriously, i praise you for what you can do, but overall i am more dissapointed than proud of what you have done since Vermintide 1 released.


I agree with the title, up to there :

They have shown with the WPoS that they are perfectly capable of releasing a fun and balanced career.

I am waiting for a balance patch and the nerfs better be along the lines of what the tourney balance mod has done.


while i dont really support your choice of wording.

i do agree however on the poor balance of the game, and that it lowered my enjoyment of it.
after the first SoTT nerf she remained so stupidly strong that she would have needed another Hotfix imediately, not to mention moonbow.

the fact they are allowed to be in this state for so long just baffles me.


I actually feel like Tourney mod desn’t adress some of the common complaints.
There needs to be something else done.
Probably something like a community-guided Big Balance Beta 2.0

If only it was that easy to unite the community and reach common ground among them…

Maybe I should just go wild and make a post with a link to a massive doc file of ideas.


i mean, if they need the time to redesign some of her kit, fine.
but atleast give us a bandaid-fix in form of some number reductions, so we don’t need to endure this stupidity in QP for months


I suspect there is some internal problems that cause this issue.
Maybe someone on the development team is lobbying against the changes.
Maybe any change they do has to be geenlit by Games Workshop (judging by GW’s “zero tolerance” policy in regards to fanmade content, I wouldn’t be surprised)
Maybe their development structure is very innert and doing any changes to the game requires about 20 different people to sychronize their working process beforehand…

We might never find out.
Probably should focus on what we can actually do for the game to become better >_>
(I think I actually will do the idea doc thing. That way, there is at least something to work with.)

No matter what they say, I am pretty sure they are super focused on Darktide release. You think it is bad now? Imagine how it will look like once Darktide releases and how much attention and popularity it wil gain from 40k community.

Something tells me the support for Vermintide 2 will go down the hill after Sienna career release.

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I don’t know if I am actually looking for to a large balance patch. Because it will either be a long list of non-nerfs (like the SotT hotfix) or it will be coupled with unnecessary buffs or even changes to make other systems worse as what we currently have.

Looking at all the discussions I also have doubts the community is able to get a good balance done. Mainly because it is already hard to get five to agree. And then you have the whole PR issue with people still arguing that Javelin, Coruscation, etc are balanced weapons and should be the new standard (like Dual Hammers or Coghammer never got nerfed despite being clearly better) instead of making a proper balanced. If they don’t nerf the people will cry and if they nerf other people will cry. This is a no-win scenario to a certain degree. And then we have the issue with playstyle dependent balance perception. There are still people arguing that OE or WP are weak or useless careers while they actually belong to the good, strong, fun and more balanced careers. But as it is playstyle dependent you will always have people say it is trash, but luckily also many, many people saying they are good. Same for weapons and talents. Irritated everytime people start claiming that there is only one viable talent in certain rows for Cataclysm etc.

As I said, a no-win scenario. In my opinion the game needs a long, large list of nerfs and only afterwards that has settle we can look at potential buffs if even needed. But not at the same time. And the best course would be to pre-warn the community so that the powergamers can already prepare mentally. A month or so before any balance thingies: "Change is coming! Due to a mix of various effects the game has become easier in the last year and does not provide the challenge it should anymore. Bla bla … "
And if people then complain that they can’t beat Legend anymore just outright tell them that there is Champion difficulty and nothing wrong with playing there -_-


hear hear

I feel like their “betterness” laregely comes down to their ease of use and versatility.
You have fast and very spammable wide light attacks for the horde, and good/acceptable single target heavies for anything else. So there is a chance that you can actually nerf them a bit an they would still stay dominant.

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They are also stat wise in many ways better what other options offer. Like what does greathammer really offer that cog does not?
There is also the funny irony that executioner was nerfed for pretty similar reasons as when discussing current coghammer.

Best part is that coghammer came out like couple months after said exe nerfs, so its like the development team has 2 different teams balancing some stuff. Consistency has really never been the strong suite of fatsharks balancing.


I would probably guess there is even more divisions.
Probably about 5-7 different people balancing different things. So somebody, who balances Kerillian doesn’t even know what Sienna’s balance looks like.

Fixed that for ya. :stuck_out_tongue:

On more serious note, I agree with everything said here so far. The imbalance has been here so long, the balance patch is going to ruffle up a lot of feathers. If it ever comes out.


I’m honestly more curious as where fatshark when and if the balance patch ever comes out, finds the middle ground to be. As Adelion alluded its really hard to even discuss some of the topic nowadays because so many people have so different expectations as to what “balanced” really is. (Partly to blame due to lack of consistent balancing in the past 2 years)

There are the old school vets who really want to drag it down hard then there is the newer people who might find even SoTT to be perfectly fine.

I very much agree with your statement.

But they actually have to start balancing to get further balancing rolling, yet they dont do anything. That is what pissing me off. It really looks like they just want to release the last contents for V2 and then focus on Darktide.

Even in their community letter where they talk about their plans for 2022, it doesnt say anything about balance updates at all. They talk about more communication with the community, which really didnt happen at all in the first month of the year, and creating community surveys, which is bonkers since everyone knows that at least elf and her new stuff is vastly outperforming.

Its just so inconsistent. Didnt they mention back then that they would do more big balance patches more often? How many did we have? I certainly know about one, not really sure anymore if we had a second. Then we get 3 new careers who all have the same content to offer. One new carreer and two new weapons. Suddenly we get a full fleshed out career with a vast amount of arguably new weapons (not complaining). Who does this? It feels like we are beta testing a developing team.

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The only way to really get some sort of consensus of the community is another Beta Patch that is heavily advertised on he launcher since I suspect most of the people here are veterans.

I would like to see some regular balance beta patches even if it’s more experimental and are then scratched (like the huntsman rework lol).
But I fear what @Jaffawer said about them focusing od Darktide has some truth to it, and can only hope we’ll see something like this in the future.

yeah but at that point its a question as to what customer you’re catering to,
vermintide is not the largest IP so offending their core fanbase is unwise.

i would say that skill expression is one of Vermintides trademarks, deviate too much and you might loose your corefanbase.
Dawn of War 3 showed perfectly how that goes…

not saying that people who play this game for 50h or maybe just 20h are less important but are these the people who undoubtedly gonna buy the next game with all of its DLCs and the game afterwards?

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Yeah and it would not be suprising if something like this only happens after the last career is out as a last horaah to Vermintide 2. Hope not, but its getting really hard to justify this amount of waiting.

@cedric.d.schmidtke Yeah I agree what you are saying, but really my core point was that there really is not massive conscious anymore as to what balanced means. Even between vets, the lines are getting more and more blurred as time goes on.

Originally we were supposed to have other BBB before the end of 2021 but due to reasons it was delayed and now it seems like totally canned. Huntsman rework was supposedly to be updated and put back on the second one for final tuning, since the first one was pretty atrocious in some ways.


The problem is also exascerbated by the fact that many Vets have advanced past even regular Cata quite a long time ago. And some have even stopped playing and focus solely on modding.

At least Fatshark clearly stated they are not going to balance around modded difficulties. So some expectations can at least be tempered beforehand.

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What do you mean? Didn’t you read that Elf Needs a Nerf thread? Javelin can’t headshoot like longbow, therefor zero elves are running infinite ammo weapons and absolutely no elf is infinitely shooting at enemies with said infinite ammo weapon.


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