Zealot's Fire Grenade vs Hive Scum's Chem Grenade – a way to improve the balance

Chem Grenades last around 18 seconds, offer high DoT and an explosion, when any affected enemy dies, which does damage and also applies even more DoT to enemies close. Fire Grenades last around 15 seconds, offer DoT that is considerably lower and doesn’t have any after-death effects.

I wouldn’t want FatShark to continue the powercreep and buff the Fire Grenades, so instead I propose this:

Decrease the DoT dmg of the Chem Grenade so it’s a bit lower than the DoT of the Fire Grenade.

The explosion and the DoT that it applies to dead enemies Just make the additional DoT still end up with lower DoT than the Fire Grenade. Explosions are more than enough to make the Chemical grenade very good.

*It could also help pave the way to eventual decrease in Elite Enemy and Armor spam.

I’m sure everyone can back me up on this one.

4 Likes

Just make chembombs last less time. A more concentrated effect.

7 Likes

And how many seconds should they last in your opinion?

I would say half the duration of the firebombs, maybe even a third considering the difference of power. Chembombs kill basically everything while firebombs are only really worth preventing trash from coming in from a certain angle - if we want to keep the power the same way, they should last for less time.

4 Likes

You meant to say Chembombs, right?

1 Like

I interpreted that as “Chembombs should have half the duration compared to firebombs”.

7 Likes

At this point it’s rather annoying when you play scum and have zealots with fire bombs on your team, because you’re competing with them for grenades, which they use for far less effect.

5 Likes

This is the correct interpretation, yeah. My bad, wasn’t clear enough.

2 Likes

I’m a proponent of no AoE or very limited AoE options in the game. Both zealots and Hive Scum nades should work more like a molotov cocktail with their size, and do very good anti-armour enemies / and decent monster damage, with a VERY limited AoE, maybe 2-3 meters in size. As it is now, AoE options in the game, basically remove the gameplay from matches. No thanks.

1 Like

This right here is why the zealot grenades feel so bad. Especially fire grenades, as the stun grenades can still be useful for clutch situations at least. If you’re trying to be a team player, it’s very hard to justify picking up grenades when there’s usually someone on your team that can make much better use of them. This inevitably pushes me to using the throwing knives, even though I’m quite tired of them.

2 Likes

Back in the beta Zealot had 4 stuns, dunno why that took a nerf. Current Darktide makes me think that would be no big deal.

Big large AoE denial grenade is indeed annoying and it’d be cooler if it fire grenades were redone into molotovs (seriously all the zealots are problem drinkers already it makes total sense) and there was an impact damage bonus for smashing a bottle of flaming liquid on something…

1 Like

How about simply doubling the effective time of the Zealot’s fire grenade?

As many have said, it’s main use currently is area denial. A longer duration would make it better at what it already is without impacting much of anything else.

4 Likes

Zealot nades were always bad, I don’t know why people keep saying things like “It’s the powercreep” like it has been like this for so long

Ogryn nades are better
Veteran nades are better even without regen
Psyker is just free
Arbites had better nades
And now Hive Scum has them too

Fire nades need a buff (also stun nades but that’s for another thread). Make it simple, with Zealot being the supposed clutch character for the most part nowadays, make fire nades have Battle Wizard’s Lingering Flames, so the DoT caused by the fire nades never gets put out until the enemy dies

9 Likes

Adding stacking brittleness to the fire could be a good reason to bring the fire nade over knives.

2 Likes

100%

Even before Hive Scum and Vet’s Krak Buffs, I barely used any of the grenades and mostly played throwing knives.

This is a good idea. I like it.

This is not possible. Dot damage is a scaled value based on the Chem Toxin template. You can’t technically reduce it only from this source. Its a global value. You could reduce max stacks from 6 to 3 and effectively achieve this but this just nerfs scums Grenade. Maybe it should be nerfed and maybe it shouldn’t. But independent of that flame grenades are pretty meh as is. They need something.

5 Likes

As long as it’s DoT will be lowered, it works for me.

In that case they could get a buff in their DoT, but obviously not to the level of the current Hive Scum Chem Grenades.

I haven’t used anything but knives in ages because they come so handy when I’m reloading the bolter but that trapper needs to die now. And it’s really satisfying to get a sniper with them. Stuns are basically in reserve for the whole game in case of a clutch, and fire bombs kill mostly trash.

3 Likes

I would love to hear a single sane argument for “shouldn’t”. Genuinely can’t imagine one.

3 Likes

Generally chem toxin needs it’s carapace damage looked at. Either that or reduce max stacks to 18 together with all other damage over time effects

2 Likes