Ambiguous wording on the challenge then
@Romucha , @Fauchames : Ooooooooooh… Now I see… I thought it was “downed” as in “0 hitpoints, needs to be revived” instead of “gotten by a disabler”.
I must have applied shield dozens of times to a freshly knocked out player, and I even did a run where I gave my bots white gear and no THP talent just to be able to get them downed more often. But now I see why the counter isn’t increasing. I do have some progress on it, but that must be the times I rescued allies from disablers. I was so confused about it, but now I get it. Thanks!
I am pretty sure most people would reach this conclusion considering that we have a specific talent for exactly this purpose and challenges normally adress different talents, weapons and oddities of a career. So I am not sure if this is the intended way for the challenge or if it is simply bugged and has the wrong trigger.
Nonetheless, there is a working trigger and way to progress and finish the challenge.
Still wondering if there is a non-cheese, intended way of completing the Old-Fashioned Learning challenge…
And, to a lesser extent, Holy Warrior (as I believe it’s not in a single shield activation, but in an unbroken shielded state and is therefore doable with conc pots).
Clever idea to use a purple drink, hadn’t thought of that yet. Could’ve saved me some trouble…
I haven’t actually tried it yet 
After spending hours with a legendary deed more hords, I confirm that Old-Fashioned Learning is not possible if you don’t stack Skaven en masse.
For Holy Warrior, I did it with a friend in less than 8 seconds (No potion) in Into the Nest with a deed more hords.
It’s simple, you go next to the second grimoire, you put yourself in front of your ally with a shield (I recommend 60% block reduction / 2 stamina + 30% stamina recovery) you let 2 hordes of skaven gather and there your mercenary ally rushes in with the mace weapon sword. (Power build (level 2.25% power / level 3, 7.5% power and level 4.15% power.)
The rotation of this weapon for those who do not know about Mercenary is push attack> H1> H2> Push attack.
Just to snip on this note in particular, in practice that is a dead talent which will never see application, because you are very unlikely to have any meaningful uptime on it. The first choice on the level 10 row is by and large pointless as well. Most of WP’s control comes from continuosly bonking things as opposed to pushing them, and as such you are pretty much forced into choosing the middle option. It’s another case of the problem most talent trees suffer from, namely that most choices are illusory or questionable memes at best and you end up with a single pick that provides practical value.
Ironically enough, the “balance desaster” of the Sister of the Thorn includes the very best talent tree in the game, as it provides the most options when it comes to creating effective builds.
Not sure why you snip on this particularly part and not the rest more interesting things, but okay. Even then, it is simply not right. You have more than enough (or meaningful) uptime on the talent because it comes in steps. You will regularly have 5 % or 10 % more crit chance. If your uptime focus on only the full 15 %, then it is an issue of the perspective. And all talents in that row are equally viable with the left one being more interesting for the support players like me and the right one for the aggressive players. There is zero forcing you to take the middle option, it isn’t better than the other choices.
On the other hand for sister you have talents in three rows which are outright far far better than their counterparts. So I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that it is the best talent tree in terms of “All talents are equally viable.” So you either chose to deny reality that and say all talents are equally good or you say that despite those three talents being the most obvious and better and most chosen choice the other talents are still viable, which would only underline how utterly bad balanced these talents are, going against the premise of SotT having one of the very best talent trees.
But thread is about WP. So let’s concentrate on that. Because it is an actual interesting and well balanced class which can stay like this for all I care. There are one or two changes I could support because they fit with talent purpose or lore. But other than that FS would do well on not changing to much, especially considering some posts where people simply ask for more dps.
First of all, unless you’re playing vanguard or something similar, there are never enough elites around to make any talent involving you killing them worthwhile, because whatever buff you get upon killing them expires before you are engaged in combat again (compare pyro’s DR talent on killing elites/specials, which is mostly useless, with gk’s power talent on killing anything, which is the best pick). Secondly, in practice you will rarely get any elites killed with any meaningful frequency as wp. Those kills will get yoinked by the gks/shades/sotts/slayers or other damage dealers that hit harder, which is basically everyone else at present. Thirdly, if you’re already at 15% crit chance, you don’t get much added benefit from a bonus of 5-10%. You’ll still have roughly the same uptime on Swift Slaying if it interests you, other meaningful effects don’t proc normally on crits (barring lightning in expeditions, but that’s already a very niche situation) and the damage increase itself due to critting is irrelevant.
Uh, I guess if you think that you’re achieving anything by spamming pushes with this guy, sure. (insert memories of Hey guys, I’m controlling! meme here) 
Not that the middle pick is a worthwhile choice by any means, but at least it’s not a largely non-existent effect. I mentioned SoTT because you can create very different highly effective builds based around your choices for the level 10, 25 and to an extent level 20 row, which is a lot more than can be said about most talent trees in the game’s current state.
If you consider crits just as a means of Swift Slaying uptime, it might be neglible. But as said that is a matter of perspective as they provide more than that. Even if you consider this not worthwhile or irrelevant, there are people who consider it worthwhile and make more out of it.
You also don’t have to spam pushes to get an use out of the left talent choice. This is simply a matter of different playstyles. You have a preference which makes different talents appear less viable, that is okay. But the choices in that row are all equally good. And the stats will start showing that soon.
Also, there are several talents in the game considered unviable/non-choice which really aren’t. Again, a matter of perspective depending on personal preferences.
I’ll admit I haven’t mathed it out, but with Great Hammer even 1 stack feels like a pretty damn noticeable difference in SS uptime to me. Also I don’t really understand how the extra crit damage is irrelevant. Just looking at the difference between crits and non crits with Great Hammer hitting the dummies, the crits seem liek a pretty big damage increase for that weapon at least. Sure it’s not reliable, but even randomly killing elites in less hits is pretty helpful.
I agree it’s not a terribly consistent talent, especially when its uptime is so party comp dependent, but I do think it’s getting generally underrated.
Personally, I take the talents:
● Attack power charge (there is no better on the line)
● Increases stagger and damage under fury to 40%
● stagger + 25% for the team.
I have the impression that there is nothing better.
You can deal heavy damage while controlling mobs and elites.
With these talents I have to take GreatHammer because he has 2 huge attack chains. One against the crowds, the other against the elites.
As a second weapon, it depends on the team.
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Hammer and book if you need mobility to quickly attack a special or escape a situation.
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If you have a good team:
flail and shield, and you’ll spam the charged attack. With all the talents before you can keep a Stormvermins patrol in place.
Obviously, it’s situational and I only take out the flail and shield if I don’t have my ultimate to rush into the heap to smash skulls.
With this as a build, you can be an offtank. Which is really awesome. You are a support, you carry out mass checks and kill everyone except the bosses.
It’s cool to smash CW in droves without them moving or dealing damage to you!
Pretty much the same, except I run the healing on row 20.
I haven’t tried the Empowered smite yet, might be worth a try. I really, genuinely feel like he doesn’t need more damage and that some healing is worth more to the team than more damage.
The fact that flail and shield heavies behave like bretsword and have a parry state makes the weapon amazingly fun to use, despite, I concede that one, quite a lackluster damage output (compensated by a decent amount of control).
For level 20, what I really like besides the damage is to increase our stagger even more and that during the fury.
Healing others can be interesting but being a cata player who has a good teammate. They know more or less how to survive on their own and the 25% of stagger that they offer them is top.
Knowing that we generally have an FK tank with lance and shield with a controlled build and an OE or a double hammer RV which recovers the life on the THP, the 25% of stagger makes them survive without worry.
You mean the stagger from Prayer of Might ? Cause that one is a no-brainer for me.
If you mean the stagger from Empowered Smite, it’s only the smite damage tick that has increased stagger - and I have no idea how big the increase is.
Yes that’s it ^^
Excuse me, I have trouble with English =)
The mixture of the two is huge, I have already had trials before pulling a chaos patrol (or that the 200% twitch puts us an patrol)
you rush with your ultimate, you dismantled the patrol and it doesn’t move, it’s great! 
Aucun souci 
That implies having your fury up before engaging 
It’s preferable we will say 
But otherwise, with Greathammer, with or without fury, he controls the Vico well! A joy to play it!
I’m on vacation, I can’t play since this morning. Too bad, they corrected his liabilities! I’ll have to wait until January. I’m glad I finished the challenges before leaving.
He is very good at tanking and supporting the team, my favorite perk is to recover health instantly after a hit as well revive, unlike other generic games with healers in it this one requires you to STAY AWARE and PAY ATTENTION because you have to be quick otherwise its over.
I love when they take the direction away from hit F to win, i think it allows for some creative applications and it becomes less automatic, it gives player agency over whats happening as well keep your mind busy thinking on opportunities to be efficient.
(i like anything makes the voices go away)